Capture One Edits

[Paul C]

Thanks, Tim. I don't expect you (or anyone else here) to answer all my questions. Just venting a little frustration, I guess.

I feel little foolish about the deletes. It's very simple, and about the same thing as any other program I use on the Mac.

As to duplicate imports from a card, it depends. PS will definitely import the same files over and over again in different directories. I guess I can understand that.

In the same directory, sometimes yes and sometimes no. If I import once without renaming my images (Original File Names), it won't import them again with the same name, sometimes with and sometimes without giving me a message. If I have my renaming set to "filename plus sequence number", it just keeps incrementing the sequence numbers and re-importing the same images over and over again every time I import from the same card. It seems that it won't import the same file name twice in the same directory, but it will import the same file with a different name in the same directory even if it is controlling the naming itself.

I guess the best I can do is have it reset the sequence number when the date changes, and hope I don't ever re-import from the card twice on the same date.

[tstoddard]

Paul,

A better approach would be to create a renaming rule that will result in the file being renamed exactly the same any time it is imported.

Here is the naming rule I use when importing from my Nikon D610:

TGS_D610_%yy%mm%dd_%FileName{right=3}.%FileExtension

Instead of using a sequence number, I use the last three digits of the file name that the camera has given the files. As long as I don't take more than 1000 photos on the same day, I won't have an issue with duplicate names and if I try to import the same file twice it will have the same name and PSU won't import it. There are other ways to accomplish the same thing depending on your camera. For example, Nikon Maker Notes include the ShutterCount which will be a unique number. Using the shutter count or at least part of it will also give you a unique (and reproducible) suffix for your file names. I'm sure others could provide additional ideas if you were to ask.

[vlad]

It seems that it won't import the same file name twice in the same directory, but it will import the same file with a different name in the same directory even if it is controlling the naming itself.

Do you already know that Photo Supreme allows you to see the file duplicates? Look at Catalog->By Catalog State->Dupliacte Files. I'm not suggesting to rely on this feature in the long term, but you might want to use it for cleaning already imported duplicates. (Btw, it would be very nice if that facility could be optionally invoked during importing, such that re-importing of duplicates was prevented in the first place!)

I guess the best I can do is have it reset the sequence number when the date changes, and hope I don't ever re-import from the card twice on the same date.

Keep in mind that the importing profile allows you to preview and selectively mark for import the images before actually importing them.

[Stephen]

... However, this is a stumbling block, so if PSU can work with sessions, i.e. Capture One .cos files, please could somebody guide me how to set it up?

Not much to set up. In CO, create a session, or choose one to open if you already have one. Close CO.

Now, from PSU, select more than 1 (one) image and "send" them to CO. CO will now open the session and your images in a separate session album. It's the same way Phase One's Media Pro integrates with CO.

Thanks, but opening C1 from PSU and using it to edit is not the problem. The problem is getting the PSU thumbnails to reflect the edits made in C1.

P.S. Using PSU version 3.1.0.2067 and Capture One version 7

[Mike Buckley]

Stephen,

Now that I've seen more of your comments, I strongly urge you to develop a workflow that remains consistent. Doing so will work wonders to minimize if not totally eliminate your understandable frustration. As an example, I download from the same memory card four or five times a day and doing so causes no problem for me. That's because my workflow and use of the sequential number in my renaming rule makes all of that very easy; no image is ever downloaded more than once. I change the offset number of the sequential number to accommodate the previous download made the same day, which is very simple to do.

Sorry that I'm no help with the appearance of your Capture One edits but that's because I don't use that editing software. However, it might help you to know that Supreme doesn't display the individual edits of the software that I use and I don't consider that a problem. That's because when I want to review those edit steps, I simply open the image in my editing software. When displaying the RAW file in Supreme, it displays the embedded JPEG properly both in the thumbnail display and all other displays, which is sufficient for me.

[HCS]

... However, this is a stumbling block, so if PSU can work with sessions, i.e. Capture One .cos files, please could somebody guide me how to set it up?

Not much to set up. In CO, create a session, or choose one to open if you already have one. Close CO.

Now, from PSU, select more than 1 (one) image and "send" them to CO. CO will now open the session and your images in a separate session album. It's the same way Phase One's Media Pro integrates with CO.

Thanks, but opening C1 from PSU and using it to edit is not the problem. The problem is getting the PSU thumbnails to reflect the edits made in C1.

P.S. Using PSU version 3.1.0.2067 and Capture One version 7

Stephen, this should work. Sometimes, it does take rather drastic edits to really see the update in PSU. After all, it is "just" an approximation. If you can't get it to show the edits like severe crop or B&W etc., please raise a support case in mantis. Something is not right in that case.

[HCS]

I understand your point. If you are shooting tethered, though, you definitely want to shoot directly into C1 then import your images into PS. I don't think C1 is a very effective repository, and it certainly doesn't compare to the functionality of PS in that regard, so I'd prefer not to have C1 as the final destination for my images. ...

Paul, aha, that changes things a bit. For me, the way i acquire images is in the first bit of my workflow, which i didn't share before. So, here goes.

For tethered shooting:
1. create specific session in CO, shoot into that.
2. manually (via file system) move files from the session capture folder to my "inbox", "dropzone" or whatever you'd like to call it (this is just a directory on my system).
3. import into PSU from here (follow the other steps of the shared workflow).

For un-thethered shooting:
1. download card into my "inbox", "dropzone" or whatever you'd like to call it (same as step 2 above).
2. import into PSU from here (follow the other steps of the shared workflow).

I make sure to not work with duplicate files. "How?" you say? By formatting my card before i start another shoot. This way, i will never run into import duplicates. For tethered shooting this is done by creating a dedicated session for each ... well, ehh ... session

By the way, i do do my culling and rating in PSU, but i never remove files.

I hope this makes more clear how i fit both CO and PSU in my workflow.

By the way 2: i do also use other converters in my workflow, like Photo Ninja and LightZone (to name a few), but i typically use jpegs to display edits in those converters.

[Stephen]

Hmm...
I have expanded my tests in editing images to include Iridient Developer and the soon to become defunct Aperture. PSU finds the applications (so it knows their locations) and the applications are able to edit the images. However, the results do not communicate back to PSU. Have I set up thing incorrectly or am I expecting too much?

This leads me to wonder who uses PSU? I would guess that the target group must be professional photographers and picture agencies. There are surely quite a few early adopters here too and maybe scientific researchers. Whom of these can forfeit a relatively accurate portrayal of an edited image in the PSU thumbnail?

[Paul C]

Paul,

A better approach would be to create a renaming rule that will result in the file being renamed exactly the same any time it is imported.

Here is the naming rule I use when importing from my Nikon D610:

TGS_D610_%yy%mm%dd_%FileName{right=3}.%FileExtension

Instead of using a sequence number, I use the last three digits of the file name that the camera has given the files. As long as I don't take more than 1000 photos on the same day, I won't have an issue with duplicate names and if I try to import the same file twice it will have the same name and PSU won't import it. There are other ways to accomplish the same thing depending on your camera. For example, Nikon Maker Notes include the ShutterCount which will be a unique number. Using the shutter count or at least part of it will also give you a unique (and reproducible) suffix for your file names. I'm sure others could provide additional ideas if you were to ask.

One of the interesting challenges to learning a new product is understanding how you can get the result you want without doing things the exact same way you did with a different product. Sometimes things we have learned in the past just become reflex and we forget why we do them.

I always appended a sequence number so I could avoid duplicate file names when my camera's 4 digit image numbers rolled over. No reason it has to be sequence number, that's just what I have always used. You are exactly right - a better approach is to create a renaming scheme that results in a number that will not be a duplicate number, and will always be the same number when you import the same image. Now that you said it, it's obvious, but I wasn't thinking that way. Shutter Count is a great idea. Thank you for an excellent suggestion.

[Paul C]

... However, this is a stumbling block, so if PSU can work with sessions, i.e. Capture One .cos files, please could somebody guide me how to set it up?

Not much to set up. In CO, create a session, or choose one to open if you already have one. Close CO.

Now, from PSU, select more than 1 (one) image and "send" them to CO. CO will now open the session and your images in a separate session album. It's the same way Phase One's Media Pro integrates with CO.

Thanks, but opening C1 from PSU and using it to edit is not the problem. The problem is getting the PSU thumbnails to reflect the edits made in C1.

P.S. Using PSU version 3.1.0.2067 and Capture One version 7

Have you tried opening C1 directly, not from PSU, and working in a Session? Sessions have .cos files; Catalogs don't. Edits made to images in Sessions should always be visible in PSU; edits made to images in C1 Catalogs will never be visible in PSU.

I suggest you try creating a C1 Session, editing an image in the Capture folder within the Session, then importing the Capture file into PSU. Make sure you check the box to include subfolders because the .cos files are in a subfolder. Try a radical crop in C1. You should be able to see it. It works for me.

[Hert]

Hmm...
I have expanded my tests in editing images in Iridient Developer and the soon to become defunct Aperture. PSU finds the applications (so it knows their locations) and the applications are able to edit the images. However, the results do not communicate back to PSU. Have I set up thing incorrectly or am I expecting too much?

This leads me to wonder who uses PSU? I would guess that the target group must be professional photographers and picture agencies. There are surely quite a few early adopters here too and maybe scientific researchers. Whom of these can forfeit a relatively accurate portrayal of an edited image in the PSU thumbnail?

Aperture, Lightroom, Dxo, CaptureOne...these are all so called PIE editors, meaning that they don't alter the image itself but they store the edits as a set of parameters. These edit parameters can only be accurately read by the vendor of the application. In other words: not a single other application can interpret edits made in a PiE editor and so these kind of editors lock you in. PSU can interpret and approximate some edits made in Lightroom, Dxo and C1...not approximate. Approximation however is enough for the purpose of managing images. Edits made in Aperture are not stored in an open readable format...this unlike Lightroom (XMP) and Dxo (dop files) and C1 (when using cos files). I do believe Iridient is able to save a jog proxy sidecar file and PSU will use that when you update the thumb with Cmd-Alt-T
No matter what RAW editor you choose, you'll be locked into that vendor's product line to accurately see the edits. If your editor will still be available in the future is always the question.

[hantayo49]

Have you tried opening C1 directly, not from PSU, and working in a Session? Sessions have .cos files; Catalogs don't. Edits made to images in Sessions should always be visible in PSU; edits made to images in C1 Catalogs will never be visible in PSU.

I suggest you try creating a C1 Session, editing an image in the Capture folder within the Session, then importing the Capture file into PSU. Make sure you check the box to include subfolders because the .cos files are in a subfolder. Try a radical crop in C1. You should be able to see it. It works for me.

Another C1 user unable to see any form of C1 adjustments in PSU. I have tried the above steps to no-avail. Have tried crops, extreme exposure adjustments, B&W etc. and nothing. I am wondering if this problem is related to Mac OS? Any other Mac users have this problem? My trial is expiring tomorrow and I just cannot purchase the software without seeing some form of my C1 adjustments.

[Stephen]

... However, this is a stumbling block, so if PSU can work with sessions, i.e. Capture One .cos files, please could somebody guide me how to set it up?

From HCS:
Not much to set up. In CO, create a session, or choose one to open if you already have one. Close CO.
Now, from PSU, select more than 1 (one) image and "send" them to CO. CO will now open the session and your images in a separate session album. It's the same way Phase One's Media Pro integrates with CO.[/quote]

From Stephen:
Thanks, but opening C1 from PSU and using it to edit is not the problem. The problem is getting the PSU thumbnails to reflect the edits made in C1.

P.S. Using PSU version 3.1.0.2067 and Capture One version 7[/quote]

From Paul:
Have you tried opening C1 directly, not from PSU, and working in a Session? Sessions have .cos files; Catalogs don't. Edits made to images in Sessions should always be visible in PSU; edits made to images in C1 Catalogs will never be visible in PSU.
I suggest you try creating a C1 Session, editing an image in the Capture folder within the Session, then importing the Capture file into PSU. Make sure you check the box to include subfolders because the .cos files are in a subfolder. Try a radical crop in C1. You should be able to see it. It works for me.[/quote]

@HCS
That is what I have been doing, but only a crop with show up. A colour edit will not. Not even something basic like C1's red-only effect.

@Paul
That sound a long way around, but I tried it anyway, thanks. The result is identical. Crops will show, but not colour edits.

Using PSU version 3.1.0.2067 and Capture One version 7

[Stephen]

Hmm...
I have expanded my tests in editing images in Iridient Developer and the soon to become defunct Aperture. PSU finds the applications (so it knows their locations) and the applications are able to edit the images. However, the results do not communicate back to PSU. Have I set up thing incorrectly or am I expecting too much?

This leads me to wonder who uses PSU? I would guess that the target group must be professional photographers and picture agencies. There are surely quite a few early adopters here too and maybe scientific researchers. Whom of these can forfeit a relatively accurate portrayal of an edited image in the PSU thumbnail?

Aperture, Lightroom, Dxo, CaptureOne...these are all so called PIE editors, meaning that they don't alter the image itself but they store the edits as a set of parameters. These edit parameters can only be accurately read by the vendor of the application. In other words: not a single other application can interpret edits made in a PiE editor and so these kind of editors lock you in. PSU can interpret and approximate some edits made in Lightroom, Dxo and C1...not approximate. Approximation however is enough for the purpose of managing images. Edits made in Aperture are not stored in an open readable format...this unlike Lightroom (XMP) and Dxo (dop files) and C1 (when using cos files). I do believe Iridient is able to save a jog proxy sidecar file and PSU will use that when you update the thumb with Cmd-Alt-T
No matter what RAW editor you choose, you'll be locked into that vendor's product line to accurately see the edits. If your editor will still be available in the future is always the question.

Thanks.
There is clearly a large market for the various PIEs; a smaller market for catalog and probably even smaller market for this who want to combine both, which in my opinion makes the most sense. PSU promises longevity, but user need to be able to edit.

I am not married to any software brand (OR hardware, incl. cameras), so the question is with which PIE editor can PSU communicate BEST? I can only see crops that I have made in C1 or Iridient, but no color edits, even after manually updating the thumbnails in PSU.

Here are screenshots of my PSU preferences. Have I got something wrong?

Photo SupremeScreenSnapz026.jpg (206.2 KiB) Viewed 8058 times

Photo SupremeScreenSnapz025.jpg (256.45 KiB) Viewed 8058 times

[tstoddard]

Aperture, Lightroom, Dxo, CaptureOne...these are all so called PIE editors, meaning that they don't alter the image itself but they store the edits as a set of parameters. These edit parameters can only be accurately read by the vendor of the application.

I think Hert's point is that PIE editors by their nature prevent us from being able to accurately see image adjustments from outside of the application that made those adjustments. It is unrealistic to expect any other application to do this.

If you really want to see the images with the exact adjustments, the only way to accomplish that is to output or render a new file from within the PIE application that made the adjustments and then find a way to get PSU to use that file for the previews it uses or to just import the new image as a version of the original. I realize that doing this does negate some of the advantages of using PIE editors but if you want to take full advantage of PSU it is a small price to pay. Creating a relatively small jpeg and saving it in the same folder or a subfolder of the original with an appropriate file name will allow PSU to easily detect that file as a version of the original when importing or verifying folders.

I think it may even be possible to save a file in a subfolder and name it in such a way that PSU will use it as a preview without actually importing it into a version set. I may be mistaken about that but perhaps somebody else can clarify this. I know that PSU is capable of looking for previews created by PhotoNinja which are stored in a specific subfolder and have a specific file extension. This approach does have it's drawbacks. It makes it difficult, if not impossible, for you to see the original file without the adjustments from within PSU, which is why I prefer to just output jpegs and create version sets.

If you want to use PSU to share or upload your images you will probably want to create jpegs anyway so why not just do it when you're processing you images in your PIE editor? Once the version sets are created, you can manage the version sets as if they are one file, modifying metadata, relocating files, etc. The only disadvantage to doing this is a little extra time to generate the files and a small amount of additional disk space that the files use. If disk space is an issue you can always create downsized jpegs using moderate compression, which would result in relatively small files.