Capture One Edits

[Paul C]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered. I searched the forum and found several discussions on this topic, but nothing that I could use to solve my problem. Here is my issue:

I recently downloaded the trial version of Photo Supreme and have been using it for a couple of days. I cannot get my adjustments made in Capture One to show up reliably in Photo Supreme.

After installing Photo Supreme, I imported the folders used by C1 (I am storing the originals in the file system, not the C1 catalog), and everything seemed fine - all my keywords and ratings showed up, and a pretty good approximation of the adjustments I had made to the .NEF files in C1. I then went to Capture One and made some additional changes to the raw files and the keywords, and after some experimentation with Preferences in both programs I can reliably get keyword changes made in C1 to show up in PS, but not any new adjustments to the raw files. I tried everything I could think of, and when nothing worked I tried Removing the imported C1 folders from PS and reimporting them with all the new C1 adjustments. Now, PS still shows the C1 adjustments I had made before the first import of the C1 files, just as they showed up before I Removed the folders, but not any adjustments I made since that import. I have tried Verifying the folders, Verifying individual images, rebuilding thumbnails - no help. PS seems stuck on the the adjustments made the first time I imported the folders, no matter what I do. I would guess this must be a setting somewhere, but I have been through the documentation and forums for both programs and I can't figure out what to try next. Any help would be appreciated.

I am running OS X 10.10.2, Version 8.2 of C1, and PS build 3.1.0.2067.

I made these adjustments directly in C1, not going from PS into C1. I tried selecting an image in PS and clicking the C1 icon, but C1 couldn't seem to see the PS image because it was already cataloged in C1, so I just went to C1 and directly edited the images.

In C1 Preferences in the Imaging section, I have Auto Sync Sidecar XMP set to Full Sync, and I have checked Prefer Sidecar XMP Over Embedded Metadata. I also checked Make New Files Writable By Everyone, but that seems to have no impact.

In PS I have the following Preferences set:

Sync panel:
Automatically Write Out Catalog Changes to the Image File
Write Section:
Only Update Out Of Sync Images (checked or not, makes no difference)
Keywords: Replace Keywords with Catalog Labels and Write Hierarchical Keywords
Read Section:
Keywords: Merge Keywords with Existing Catalog labels and Read Hierarchical Labels (if available)

File Handling Panel:
DxO Edits Support: Approximate
Capture One Edits Support : Approximate

I also use DxO and there is a .dop file for one of the originals in the folder, so I thought that might be causing some confusion, but the problem occurs for images that I have not touched with DxO and with images in other folders with no .dop files. I was hoping the DxO adjustments would show up as a separate version from the C1 changes, but I can't even get the C1 changes to show up, so versioning is the least of my worries at the moment. Also, I can't get any DxO changes to show up either so I don't think this is a C1 issue.

Has anybody run into this problem and solved it? I'm probably doing something wrong, and I'd love to know what.

Thanks

[Hert]

PSU reads C1 edits from the COS sidecar file that C1 writes. If you don't see the edits, even after manually updating a thumb with Cmd All T, then verify that C1 still writes COS files.

[Paul C]

Thanks. That is exactly the problem. As it turns out, Capture One only creates .cos files for Sessions, not for images in the Catalog, whether the originals are referenced or managed in the C1 catalog - at least in Version 8. That explains why I'm not seeing all the C1 adjustments. That leaves me with 2 questions:

1. Any chance Photo Supreme will be able to read the C1 Catalog file any time soon to make an approximation to the C1 adjustments, or is using C1 Sessions the only way to get the C1 adjustments to show up in PS? I suspect the latter.

2. I have the same problem with DxO edits - they don't show up in my PS catalog. In this case, the .dop files are in the same folder as the raw originals, but I can't get the DxO changes to show up in PS. I believe that the .dop functionality was added to PS in a recent build, so, again, I suspect I am doing something wrong. Any suggestions? Doesn't seem to matter what I put in the Main Version Detection Method, it that has anything to do with it. I Verified the folder and rebuilt the Thumbnails, to no avail. Interestingly, the tiff:Software field in the Details panel for the images I modified with DxO contains "Nikon Transfer 2.8M". I used Nikon Transfer to import and rename the images from the card, imported the images into PS, then edited the raw files in DxO. For some reason it seems that PS is only seeing the raw file, not the DxO changes. However, tiff files that I export from DxO and then import to PS correctly list "DxO Optics Pro 10" in the tiff:Software field.

[Stephen]

I have the same problem using Capture One Version 7.

[Hert]

PSU works with Cos files. When you configure C1 to not write Cos files then PSU can't see the edits.

[Stephen]

PSU works with Cos files. When you configure C1 to not write Cos files then PSU can't see the edits.

C1 is certainly writing cos files. Here is a screen shot with the only preferences screen where I see any relevant settings. The drop-down box "Auto Sync Sidecar XMP" has the options of none / load / full sync.

Since un-clicking "Prefer embedded XMP" I am getting countless error messages "Could not generate XMP file".

If I manually change meta data, like description in C1, this is automatically seen by PSU. If I change it in PSU, it is only transferred when I specify. However, image edits made in C1 are not seen in PSU.

I cannot find documentation on intercommunication between applications. Can anybody help please?

Capture OneScreenSnapz006.jpg (207.82 KiB) Viewed 11565 times

[Paul C]

PSU works with Cos files. When you configure C1 to not write Cos files then PSU can't see the edits.

I don't think it is possible to configure C1 to write or not write .cos files - at least, I don't know of any way to control it.

C1 can manage images in 2 ways, in Sessions, which seem to be designed for individual shoots and is good for shooting tethered, and in Catalogs, which are based on the OS file management system. Sessions produce .cos files within the Session directory tree, so the .cos files can be found in a subfolder of the Session folder which stores the image files. Catalogs store C1 information (adjustments, indices, links, whatever else they store) in a Catalog database, called "{filename}.cocatalog". This is a "container" on a Mac, and if you look in the package contents there are various folders like Previews and Thumbnails, and a file with the extension .cocatalogdb which appears to contain all the info about the images. Within the subfolders of the container, there are files with extensions .comask, .cop, .cof, and .cot, but no .cos files.

I contacted Phase One tech support about .cos files in Catalogs and how Catalogs might be integrated into another program such as Photo Supreme, and here is an excerpt from their response:

"When you make edits in Sessions, Capture One stores a “CaptureOne” folder next to your RAW files which contains a Settings70 folder which has all the adjustments you have done in a .cos file. Catalogs, however, work quite differently. Instead of storing the edits, masks, and previews next to the raw files, Catalogs keep those instructions, previews, and focus masks stored inside the catalog file itself (.cocatalogdb).

So simple answer is that there are no .cos files with catalogs to view in PS. You must use sessions to integrate the way you want to."

Given this information, I don't expect that I will be able to see edits to images made in C1 from within PS if I am using Catalogs in C1, so I was asking if there is any possibility PS would be modified to interpret edits made in a Catalog structure in C1 at any point in the foreseeable future.

Thanks

[Stephen]

On my recent sessions over the last 3 months (some of which I have edited in C1), C1 has indeed created 2 sub-folders which show .cop , .cof and .cos files. However, I cannot get any of that edited work to transfer over to the PSU thumbnails, only edits to the EXIF data transfer correctly.

My work until the end of 2014 was exported from Aperture and imported into PSU. I no longer remember whether work went into catalogs or sessions. I will try to edit a few files and let you know if I have any success.

Update: I have just made a test as promised and it is the same as the other edits in more recent work. Whether that proves that the older images are in sessions or catalogs I cannot say. However, this is a stumbling block, so if PSU can work with sessions, i.e. Capture One .cos files, please could somebody guide me how to set it up?

[HCS]

... However, this is a stumbling block, so if PSU can work with sessions, i.e. Capture One .cos files, please could somebody guide me how to set it up?

Not much to set up. In CO, create a session, or choose one to open if you already have one. Close CO.

Now, from PSU, select more than 1 (one) image and "send" them to CO. CO will now open the session and your images in a separate session album. It's the same way Phase One's Media Pro integrates with CO.

[Paul C]

Alternatively, you can start in C1 if your images are already on disk or if you are importing from a card. Open C1, Create a New Session, name it and click the Import icon. C1 creates a Session folder with the name you gave it, with several subfolders. One of these is the Capture folder which is the default location for your images. Import your images to this C1 Session and make your adjustments. To get them into PS, open PS and navigate to the Capture folder (or wherever you put your images) in the Session folder you created, and import to PS, making sure the Include Subfolders box is checked in the More Settings section of the import dialog. Your images should be imported with the C1 adjustments. If you make additional changes in C1, or if this is an existing PS folder, just right-click-Verify the folder. PS should find the changes you made in C1 and rebuild the thumbnails so you can see them.

[HCS]

Alternatively, you can start in C1 if your images are already on disk or if you are importing from a card. Open C1, Create a New Session, name it and click the Import icon. C1 creates a Session folder with the name you gave it, with several subfolders. One of these is the Capture folder which is the default location for your images. Import your images to this C1 Session and make your adjustments. To get them into PS, open PS and navigate to the Capture folder (or wherever you put your images) in the Session folder you created, and import to PS, making sure the Include Subfolders box is checked in the More Settings section of the import dialog. Your images should be imported with the C1 adjustments. If you make additional changes in C1, or if this is an existing PS folder, just right-click-Verify the folder. PS should find the changes you made in C1 and rebuild the thumbnails so you can see them.

While that is true, i wonder why one would use PSU then.

I'd imagine PSU to be the start and end of the image handling process, of course YMMV. I import images into PSU, while being renumbered to unique numbers. I then apply basic keywords and rate images to select them for further development in CO (or converter of your choice). Then i move the images to their final destination on disk. The selected images get sent to CO, i do my thing over there and return to PSU. If required, i rebuild the thumbs to reflect changes i did in CO.

In this way, i have on "source of truth" and don't have to worry about other software's own rules when importing or what have you.

This is obviously just my honest and humble opinion, so please take it like that (that means with as many grains of salt as you deem necessary ).

[Paul C]

I understand your point. If you are shooting tethered, though, you definitely want to shoot directly into C1 then import your images into PS. I don't think C1 is a very effective repository, and it certainly doesn't compare to the functionality of PS in that regard, so I'd prefer not to have C1 as the final destination for my images.

Besides that, I'm still struggling to figure out how to use PS effectively and I am not convinced it is my best option for initial imports and culling, although I think it is an excellent repository. For example, I can't figure out how to import from a card and only import images that have not already been imported. It isn't obvious to me how to copy IPTC data that only applies to selected images from one image to others. I can't even figure out how to delete images I don't want without going to the OS and deleting them, then Verifying the folder in PS. It seems to me that these things must be doable, but I have read all the documentation and I don't see an answer. I have tried right-clicking everything clickable; I have set and reset all the preferences; and I have pulled down every menu I can find to pull down. Searching this forum seems to be the only way to learn things about the software. I want to use PS as my one "source of truth" as you put it, but I'm wondering if I don't need to filter incoming images through another product first (not C1) to get the behavior I want. I hope to learn that isn't the case. I think the PS concept is wonderful and the things I have been able to figure out are very powerful, but I wish there were a decent user manual so I wouldn't have to invest so much time in trial and error.

[tstoddard]

Paul,

I don't have time to address all of your issues but I can tell you that deleting files is very simple and I'm not sure why you would find it difficult to figure out. You can select a thumbnail, right click and select delete from the menu, or you can just press the delete button. You should then be given a context specific selection that will, at the very least, ask you if you just want to delete the image from your catalog or if you want to delete if from your catalog and your disk. I run Windows and that's how it works on my machine. I can't imagine that it would be much different on a OS X.

Also, I'm pretty sure that if you try to import the same files into the same directories, PSU will skip the ones that already exist. I think that is the default setting. You just have to make sure you use the same import profile so that the folder structure is the same. I think that PSU will let you import duplicate images if you are copying them into different folders on import. Have you actually tried importing the same files twice?

[vlad]

In addition to Tom's helpful explanations, here are some pointers from me:

It isn't obvious to me how to copy IPTC data that only applies to selected images from one image to others.

1) You can directly edit the metadata fields of one or multiple files using the Details panel.

2) I am not aware if and how you could explicitly propagate metadata fields from one image to others - unless all those images are part of the same version set. If they are not, perhaps you could group them in a version set (Shift-V), at least on a temporary basis, and then use the cascading feature. (However, this does not currently allow you to selectively cascade just the IPTC data, afaik.)

3) Are you aware that you can map a catalog label (key concept !) to one or more multiple metadata fields - or even define and apply a custom, arbitrary complex metadata profile for any label? (That's incredibly powerful!) If your selected images have something in common, as you suggest, than you might want to consider assigning them one or more common labels, with the approparite metadata mappings or profiles.

4) Depending on what metadata you might want to copy - and how often do you need that - you might write (or need ) a custom script. (Scripting is one of the most powerful features in PSU, although it's hard to exploit it unless you're familiar with programming and you have a lot of patience to dig for info and details.)

Searching this forum seems to be the only way to learn things about the software.

I would say that it is a (very) good way, if you have the patience to search for info and filter out noise. I wouldn't say it's the only way, though.

I think the PS concept is wonderful and the things I have been able to figure out are very powerful, but I wish there were a decent user manual so I wouldn't have to invest so much time in trial and error.

For me personally, trial & error - or, preferably, trial & success - was part of the fun in learning PSU. I can certainly see how the lack of a better (more detailed and comprehensive) manual could be frustrating, but I still think one could learn many things with the existing manual, help from the forum and a positive mindset.

Hope that helps,
Vlad

[Mike Buckley]

I can't figure out how to import from a card and only import images that have not already been imported.

On my system, once images have been imported by default they will not be imported a second time. That might be because I'm using only download profiles. When using a particular profile, that profile is always downloaded to the same folder of course unless I change the profile (which I never change with respect to the folder that the images will be downloaded to). If you're not downloading to the same folder, I wonder if that is causing you to have to manually configure the images to be imported.

Even so, if you click the "More Settings" button, you can always manually determine which images are to be imported. That process is reasonably intuitive. So, if you don't understand it, it's probably best to start a new thread to ask about it.

I can't even figure out how to delete images

That has already been answered earlier in the thread.

I want to use PS as my one "source of truth" as you put it

It might help you to know that I have been using PhotoSupreme and its predecessor for seven years exactly that way. My thinking is that any effective DAM software is relatively complex and takes a relatively long time to learn how to use effectively compared to many other software product categories. So, learning how to use PhotoSupreme does require more patience than learning how to use many other product categories because it's a DAM product.