Camera Raw Settings are getting lost

[tstoddard]

I'm running version 2024.2.2.6668 on Windows 11 and have started encountering a new problem. I can't seem to repeat it consistently but it's very problematic when it happens. I haven't changed my workflow in a couple of years now so it's nothing new that I'm doing. My workflow is as follows:

I import my raw photo files to my harddrive then import them into Photo Supreme using an import profile that I've used for a long time now. After importing the raw files, I use a link in Photo Supreme to open them in Abobe Bridge. From Bridge, I open them individually and edit them in Adobe Camera Raw. After editing the the raw files, I export them to jpegs using Bridge. I then close Bridge, go back to Photo Supreme and verify the folder. After Photo Supreme has imported all of the new jpegs and they are versioned with their associated raw files, some of them still show as out of sync. That's always been that way. I go back to those files and sync them using the Ctl + S keyboard shortcut. After doing that, when I open the raw files in Bridge again, the Camera Raw settings are lost. That means that I have to edit them all over again.

I first noticed this a week or two ago. I'm not sure what build I was using at that time. I update Photo Supreme whenever a new build comes out. This is a very serious issue for me. I spend a lot of time editing and can't afford to have all my edits wiped out like that. Has anyone else noticed anything similar of late?

[Hert]

Ctrl-S writes metadata from catalog to file
Ctrl-Alt-S reads metadata from file to catalog

You last changed the metadata outside of PSU.
You need to read your metadata to the catalog.

[tstoddard]

Okay, I'll start doing that but I never did before and this never used to happen. I just now tried to recreate it and I couldn't. It can't figure out why it happens sometimes and not others when I do the exact same thing. I'll keep an eye on it and report back if it still happens after reading metadata to the catalog.

Shouldn't that happen automatically when a file is changed and I verify the folder? When I verify, Photo Supreme notices that the file have changed and it's set to import data from file for those files that have changed. Isn't that the point of verifying?

[tstoddard]

I'm still experiencing this issue. Here is what I did today:

• I transferred 29 raw files from my camera card to a staging folder on my hard drive

• I used Photo Supreme to rename the files and move them into a folder based on the date of the photos without importing them into the catalog

• In a separate step, I imported them from their new folder into the Photo Supreme Catalog using an import profile that I've used many times before

• I added two labels to each photo

• I opened them up in Bridge and went through them one at a time, making edits using Camera Raw

• I created jpegs of each by using the export functionality in Adobe Bridge

• In anticipation of potential issues, I made a back up copy of the entire folder onto another location on my hard drive

• I went back to Photo Supreme and did a quick verify on the folder. All of the jpegs were imported and version sets were created automatically. All the images were shown to be in sync without me having to manually sync them

• I opened Adobe Bridge again and looked at the files. All of the raw files showed that they no longer had Camera Raw adjustments.

Fortunately, I had the backups so I removed all the original files from Photo Supreme and the hard drive, copied the backup files back into the original folder and then went back to Photo Supreme and verified the folder again. This time, they all came into Photo Supreme, version sets were created, and all files were in sync. I checked them in Bridge again and all Camera Raw settings were there.

This tells me that the only safe way for me to use Photo Supreme on my files now is to do all editing before importing them. The problem with this is that if I decide to make adjustments after importing them, I'll be uncertain about whether I can verify the files again without losing the adjustments.

I'm not sure what to do. This is very perplexing. I've tried manually reading metadata from the file before syncing with mixed success and if the files are already synced when the file gets verified and the adjustments are already lost, then reading the metadata to xmp won't help.

I've relied on Photo Supreme for many years now but I feel now that I can no longer can use it confidently. I guess I can report this as a bug if you want me to but it's hard to replicate. It seems to happen inconsistently.

Please let me know if you have any thoughts about what i can try doing to diagnose and eliminate this issue.

[RobiWan]

I have never had such problems. What I don't understand - you write about Import or Verify Quick. Both are read operations where nothing is written. However, you seem to be doing something in between that triggers an incorrect write operation.

[tstoddard]

I imported all of the raw photos first, before doing anything to them. Then opened them in Bridge and made adjustments. After making the adjustments I created jpegs. Then I went back to Photo Supreme and verified the folder using the "Verify Folder Quick" option. The settings I use to verify the folder imports all of the new files (the jpegs I created) into the catalog and creates version sets and attempts to synchronize the files. Actually, the changes are made to the associated XMP files. Camera Raw stores its adjustments in those XMP files and doesn't actually change the raw files as far as I can tell.

What's annoying is that sometimes, after verifying, all of the files show that they're in sync, other times none of them seem to get synced, and still other times there are just a few of them that show the orange dot meaning that they are out of sync. I don't do anything differently but I get different results. I used to just select all of the out of sync files, use Ctl+S to sync them and all would be good. Now when I do that, I lose the camera raw settings sometimes (not all of the time). I have experimented with using Ctr+Alt+S first and that has worked most of the time. I still have to use Ctl+S afterwards to get rid of the orange dots. There have been times when even after doing the Ctl+Alt+S and then Ctl+S that I have lost settings. I can't seem to reproduce results consistently.

I did a quick test using 5 raw files in a test folder. I followed the same workflow as I described above. Here's what I see when I do the verify:

Screenshot 2024-11-06 155730.png (46.54 KiB) Viewed 948 times

I clicked Start Processing and everything happened automatically. On the occasion of this test, four out of the five version sets showed the orange dot. I selected them all and did the Ctl+S (without doing Ctl+Alt+S first) and the dots went away. When I went back to Adobe Bridge, all of the adjustments were still there. Like I said, I can't seem to reproduce it consistently. When I did this with my 29 raw files this morning, none of them had orange dots after doing the verify but all of my adjustments were lost.

[RobiWan]

The point might be the following (just try it out)
1. import new RAW files PSU, then Ctrl+S
2. edit the images in Bridge/ Camera RAW
3. in PSU - quick verify
4. check in Bridge if everything is correct
5. if so, which I assume, only now create the JPEG files
6. Quick Verify in PSU (import new jpeg)
8. Check Bridge

[tstoddard]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will probably do that and it will probably solve the issues but it's annoying that I need to complicate my workflow even more in order to accomplish this. I sometimes have large numbers of files to edit and I don't always edit them all at the same time. I might do some one day and then come back to others on a later date. Each time I edit more raw files, I'm going to need to be careful about the order in which I do things. I never used to have to worry about it. I've always used PSU early in my workflow, importing raw images and labeling them before making adjustments and creating jpegs. I could do it in any order and as long as I verified the folders before using Ctl+S I never lost adjustments. Why is this happening now and why so inconsistently? I always believed that Photo Supreme was smart enough to write metadata to the XMP files without overwriting the Abobe metadata under any circumstances. Either that has changed or I was mistaken before.

I'm not saying that PSU is at fault here. Adobe may have changed something also that has ultimately resulted in this behavior, but I'd sure like to know what's causing it.

The only other change I've made in my workflow is to use PSU to rename my files and create the folder structure to store them in. I used to use FastPictureViewer to do that before importing them into PSU. I stopped using FastPictureViewer a few months ago when I built a new PC and started using it. I don't know if that could have caused any of this but I don't see how it would have.

[tstoddard]

More testing has revealed something interesting.

Today and went out and got some fresh photos to experiment with. I kept 11 photos from my camera card and processed them all three times using different steps each time. I was able to partially replicate the issue once. I don't want to go into details on how I did that just yet because I noticed something interesting that may be a clue to what is causing the issue.

Twice, after making Camera Raw adjustments in Bridge and creating jpegs then going back to PSU and verifying the folder by right clicking the folder and selecting Verify Folder Quick, I noticed that when the dialog window opened it indicated that there are 11 files not in the catalog but it didn't indicate that any files had changed. If I cancel out of the dialog and then do it again by right clicking the folder and selecting Verify Folder Quick again, the dialog window opens and this time it shows that 11 files have changed and that there are 11 files that are not in the catalog.

I've been able to reproduce this behavior 4 times now. If I complete the verify the first time (without cancelling and repeating) that's when I lose adjustments. The times that I cancelled and reopened the verify dialog, I didn't lose any adjustments even though some of the files still showed as out of sync and I used Ctl+S to get them into sync.

This tells me that PSU is not noticing the file changes on the first try. I think this might be a bug. I guess it's time to contact support.

Thanks for your help.

[RobiWan]

That was also my guess. You have 2 changes per file and that seems to be a problem in terms of versions or stacks.

First change - your edits in Bridge
Second change - create JPEG files which are corresponding to existing RAW files.

I think PSU should also notice the changes to RAW/XMP files in the Quick Check folder and import everything and only then build the version set

I think it's a good idea to contact support.

[tstoddard]

Thanks for your response. Yes, the problem is directly related to the issue I discovered, which is that after making adjustments to my raw files, if I go back to PSU and verify the folder, the first time I do it, PSU doesn't recognize that there have been changes. If I verify again immediately, then it does recognize changes. If I verify twice and then proceed, its' safe for me to do whatever I want as far as using Ctl+S to get rid of the orange out of sync dots.

The reason adjustments are getting lost is, like you say, when I have two changes, when I make adjustments to the raw files and create jpegs and then come back to PSU and verify the folder, PSU finds the new files but doesn't recognize the changed files. If I go ahead and verify when that happens, that's when I am vulnerable to losing adjustments. It's odd, though, that sometimes some of the adjustments are lost, sometime none are lost, and at least one time all of them were lost. It seems that PSU is reading some of the file changes during that verification process even though it didn't find them initially. Also, I never have understood why after importing my raw images into my catalog, they all show up as out of sync. I usually assign labels before doing anything else and then the orange dots disappear so I haven't bothered to question that.

I have sent an email to support so hopefully I'll get this worked out. I'm curious whether anyone else is experiencing this. I can't imagine I'm the only one.

[RobiWan]

I can't imagine I'm the only one.

No, you are not. I have also observed other things in connection with "Verify Folder Quick" and have written to support. Hert will certainly take a closer look at the whole thing.

[Username]

Just a quick thought.
Do Brigde write changes after each edit of each file or does it write out the changes to all files when quitting Brigde?

[tstoddard]

I'm pretty sure Bridge writes the changes out for each file after its edited. I usually close Bridge before going back to Photo Supreme just to make sure that the two programs aren't causing some kink of conflict.

[tstoddard]

I just updated Photo Supreme to build 6687 and the issue with it not recognizing changed files the first time I do a Verify Folder Quick seems to have been resolved. I've tried it several times now and have not been able to reproduce that issue.

In the notes for the latest update, it says thatthe issue of files not being brought into sync when importing them into the catalog has been fixed. My one test image was still out of sync after I imported it into the catalog so I don't think that issue has been resolved.

From the "What's new in Photo Supreme" update notes:

Fixes:
6682; Fix for not properly bringing the imported image to fully in-sync after import, using "Import to Catalog" (Wizard) with the copy option OFF
6677; Fix for not always sync'ing after an import

I have tried importing my file using the wizard and by using an "Import to Catalog" with a profile that doesn't copy the file and both times, my image is still out of sync after the import. After importing the raw file, I added a label to it and the orange dot went away. Then I went to Bridge, made adjustments and created a jpeg version of the file. I went back to PSU, did a "Verify Folder Quick" and PSU recognized that the raw file had changed and it found the jpeg. I ran the verify process and the new file was import, a version set was created, and an orange dot showed up on the version set. I don't know if there's any way to know which of the files are out of sync or if they are both out of sync but I was able to use Ctl+S to bring them back into sync and I didn't lose my adjustments.

I can certainly live with this since it's what I've been used to for a long time now. It's the loss of adjustments that was bothering me most but I still wanted to let Hert know that the fixes don't seem to have worked completely as stated on my machine.

Thanks!