"Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Your diving into a really messy metadata system when it comes to photography!
I suggest you take a look at EXIFTOOL.ORG specifically https://exiftool.org/TagNames/index.html where Phil has done an extensive breakdown of all the metadata fields the table at the link above covers just about all the permutations and lists identical named but different fields or different ly named but identical fields etc etc.
Also worth diving into the standards themselves like https://iptc.org/ but remember that's only one of many different incoherent standards bear in mind if your dealing with older images then any data in them may have been produced to older versions of whatever standard seemed a good idea at the time
If anyone has any other sites or knows of any handy diagrams for locating and identifying metadata fields please feel free to shout!
As to technical data like lens and camera settings that's usually in EXIF or the proprietary metadata associated with the Make/Model of camera take a look at the DETAILS grouping in PSU, however be aware they don't seem to be indexed (Hert ?) as for me at least they seem to take ages to be scanned and the numbers displayed and expanded. Otherwise click on the Details view lower right tabs and then expand the groupings of metadata to see what is hiding under what heading!
I suggest you take a look at EXIFTOOL.ORG specifically https://exiftool.org/TagNames/index.html where Phil has done an extensive breakdown of all the metadata fields the table at the link above covers just about all the permutations and lists identical named but different fields or different ly named but identical fields etc etc.
Also worth diving into the standards themselves like https://iptc.org/ but remember that's only one of many different incoherent standards bear in mind if your dealing with older images then any data in them may have been produced to older versions of whatever standard seemed a good idea at the time
If anyone has any other sites or knows of any handy diagrams for locating and identifying metadata fields please feel free to shout!
As to technical data like lens and camera settings that's usually in EXIF or the proprietary metadata associated with the Make/Model of camera take a look at the DETAILS grouping in PSU, however be aware they don't seem to be indexed (Hert ?) as for me at least they seem to take ages to be scanned and the numbers displayed and expanded. Otherwise click on the Details view lower right tabs and then expand the groupings of metadata to see what is hiding under what heading!
Geoff Mather (G8DHE)
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
What the metadata is is not so important to me. I was only using that as an example. My question is having found one or two metadata fields how do I turn them into a catalog item in Photo Supreme. What do I actually do in the program itself. What button do I press, what dialog do I fill? Do I copy the data item I want to use into an ITPC keywords field. I've read the catalog section of the manual twice and I still haven't been able to do it.
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Ah, I think I see where your coming from! Its not something my workflow needs to handle as all new images either come from my own cameras or generally don't have any metadata worth using if from the net or somewhere.
I can see how it could be used for instance I have a Label "Headcam" under styles which any of my cameras worn on a crash hat get labelled so for me a search "Drift@XMP:Make" will pull up all images taken from either of my Drift Innovation cameras and I then just select all those images and Drag&Drop the Headcam Label on them.
I guess your looking for this to happen automatically at Import time ? I don't think the Import Profile option allows an "If X Then Label Y" type approach but maybe Hert can suggest a mechanism ?
Maybe something can be done with the scripting system something like Resource Name: Place Finder Labels says it can be modified for any other category entries? Or looking further there is "Macro Command to Catalog Label" that looks like it can do the job! See the Script resources page here https://repository.idimager.com/
I can see how it could be used for instance I have a Label "Headcam" under styles which any of my cameras worn on a crash hat get labelled so for me a search "Drift@XMP:Make" will pull up all images taken from either of my Drift Innovation cameras and I then just select all those images and Drag&Drop the Headcam Label on them.
I guess your looking for this to happen automatically at Import time ? I don't think the Import Profile option allows an "If X Then Label Y" type approach but maybe Hert can suggest a mechanism ?
Maybe something can be done with the scripting system something like Resource Name: Place Finder Labels says it can be modified for any other category entries? Or looking further there is "Macro Command to Catalog Label" that looks like it can do the job! See the Script resources page here https://repository.idimager.com/
Geoff Mather (G8DHE)
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Thank you Geoff for persisting with me. I appreciate all your information.
I think I'm not seeing the wood for the trees here. But I did find a method which seems to work quite well. I don't know whether this is the programs intended method but it does seem to work well.
It comes out of the close relationship between image metadata keywords and PS catalog labels. With the synchronization settings set to default the former populates the latter and vice versa. So, for example, I chose camera zoom lens setting. I loaded the metadata for this into the image keywords. Upon synchronization this data populates the PS catalog labels and vice versa. It is easy to put this data into the keywords using the Details panel as a right click on the entry box brings up an extensive list of image metadata names. I am going to test this out a bit further.
Thank you again, Jeff
I think I'm not seeing the wood for the trees here. But I did find a method which seems to work quite well. I don't know whether this is the programs intended method but it does seem to work well.
It comes out of the close relationship between image metadata keywords and PS catalog labels. With the synchronization settings set to default the former populates the latter and vice versa. So, for example, I chose camera zoom lens setting. I loaded the metadata for this into the image keywords. Upon synchronization this data populates the PS catalog labels and vice versa. It is easy to put this data into the keywords using the Details panel as a right click on the entry box brings up an extensive list of image metadata names. I am going to test this out a bit further.
Thank you again, Jeff
Last edited by JeffK on 29 Jan 22 2:41, edited 1 time in total.
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
From the repository:
Macro Command to Catalog Label
This script will create catalog labels based on a macro command. For every selected thumbnail the macro is parsed and the value is assigned as a catalog label to the image.
https://repository.idimager.com/openres ... 742A3631E7
Photo Supreme 6.7.2.4201 (64 bits) (Windows)
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Thank you I will have a look
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Jeff, apologies if I have misunderstood what you are trying to do and what you have already tried, as I'm not following it too well. But one or two things I would ask, in case you are missing something basic as you suspect:
i) are you ok with creating a basic hierarchy (you seem to have had a difficulty?)? Which is to say, if you click on "categories" in the ribbon at the top of the creen, this will display your categories in the left hand pane; if you right-click a category on this pane you can add a new category - at any level, so you can create a hierarchy - or edit an existing category (this is right click option "edit" on a top level category, "details" on lower level ones) which lets you change many aspects of a category's behaviour, or assign it to a new parent to alter your hierarchy. You can also drag categories around to move them to a different parent.
ii) I wonder if you are trying to create categories for metadata that PSU already handles "natively" such as tech details like shutter speed? Because these can be viewed in their own "hierarchies" by selecting the appropriate left hand pane from the ribbon, eg "details" or "timeline" rather than category. If so then the second thing to understand is that you can select for images using the comprehensive search and filter facilities which will let you select combinations of all sorts of data. I won't delve into this here as it's a topic by itself but recreating these data items as categories is not how PSU is designed to be used.
iii) are you ok with the understanding of how places behave? This can be a little complex, and again too much to delve into here, but if in doubt refer to the PSU help PDF, and maybe checkout the thread I linked to above.
Hope this helps.
i) are you ok with creating a basic hierarchy (you seem to have had a difficulty?)? Which is to say, if you click on "categories" in the ribbon at the top of the creen, this will display your categories in the left hand pane; if you right-click a category on this pane you can add a new category - at any level, so you can create a hierarchy - or edit an existing category (this is right click option "edit" on a top level category, "details" on lower level ones) which lets you change many aspects of a category's behaviour, or assign it to a new parent to alter your hierarchy. You can also drag categories around to move them to a different parent.
ii) I wonder if you are trying to create categories for metadata that PSU already handles "natively" such as tech details like shutter speed? Because these can be viewed in their own "hierarchies" by selecting the appropriate left hand pane from the ribbon, eg "details" or "timeline" rather than category. If so then the second thing to understand is that you can select for images using the comprehensive search and filter facilities which will let you select combinations of all sorts of data. I won't delve into this here as it's a topic by itself but recreating these data items as categories is not how PSU is designed to be used.
iii) are you ok with the understanding of how places behave? This can be a little complex, and again too much to delve into here, but if in doubt refer to the PSU help PDF, and maybe checkout the thread I linked to above.
Hope this helps.
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Hello snowman1,
Thank you for your post. To answer briefly:-
1. Yes I have some working knowledge of creating a basic hierarchy albeit may not be fully on top of every available option. My situation is that ultimately it has to work for tens of thousands of images, most of which already have GPS metadata included and many also with populated location metadata fields. I'm only experimenting with a small subset of these though. So in the long term it is not practicable to manually enter the Places hierarchy catalog labels. The inbuilt method appears to work well with only a few glitches. But the question I was asking myself was if I want to do this myself how is it done?
That is, as I expressed above, "My question is having found one or two metadata fields how do I turn them into a catalog item in Photo Supreme. What do I actually do in the program itself. What button do I press, what dialog do I fill? Do I copy the data item I want to use into an ITPC keywords field. I've read the catalog section of the manual twice and I still haven't been able to do it." I have had significant success putting the necessary data into the metadata keyword fields with the program doing the translation to catalog labels effectively. But I still have no certainty that this is how the program is intended to work.
2. Yes i am aware that I have been trying to do what the program natively does by more efficient means. I wanted to understand what to do if I wanted to do something outside that in the future. No point in loading up thousands of photos and then finding I didn't have the knowledge on how to process them for an as yet unknown desired outcome.
3. I'm pretty sure I understand how Places behaves, and I could just use it for my major purpose without further mucking around. But I wanted to know how to do it myself. My photos all have geodata installed and I have used several apps to enter it and manage it in the past; including free ones like geosetter an XNViewMP and paid ones like ACDSee, iMatch and Topofusion (which places photos on gpx tracks/routes on top of maps). I didn't really like using ACDSee for this it turned out (it wasn't as functional as I thought) and I came back to Photo Supreme to give it another go.
I'll go back over the thread you referenced above and also I have been experimenting with the script suggested by sanphotgn above.
Thank you for your help. I appreciate the time and energy you and Geoff have put into my queries. I'm still lost but I'm guessing you guys are the pilot and cockatoo i n the helicopter circling above.
Jeff
Thank you for your post. To answer briefly:-
1. Yes I have some working knowledge of creating a basic hierarchy albeit may not be fully on top of every available option. My situation is that ultimately it has to work for tens of thousands of images, most of which already have GPS metadata included and many also with populated location metadata fields. I'm only experimenting with a small subset of these though. So in the long term it is not practicable to manually enter the Places hierarchy catalog labels. The inbuilt method appears to work well with only a few glitches. But the question I was asking myself was if I want to do this myself how is it done?
That is, as I expressed above, "My question is having found one or two metadata fields how do I turn them into a catalog item in Photo Supreme. What do I actually do in the program itself. What button do I press, what dialog do I fill? Do I copy the data item I want to use into an ITPC keywords field. I've read the catalog section of the manual twice and I still haven't been able to do it." I have had significant success putting the necessary data into the metadata keyword fields with the program doing the translation to catalog labels effectively. But I still have no certainty that this is how the program is intended to work.
2. Yes i am aware that I have been trying to do what the program natively does by more efficient means. I wanted to understand what to do if I wanted to do something outside that in the future. No point in loading up thousands of photos and then finding I didn't have the knowledge on how to process them for an as yet unknown desired outcome.
3. I'm pretty sure I understand how Places behaves, and I could just use it for my major purpose without further mucking around. But I wanted to know how to do it myself. My photos all have geodata installed and I have used several apps to enter it and manage it in the past; including free ones like geosetter an XNViewMP and paid ones like ACDSee, iMatch and Topofusion (which places photos on gpx tracks/routes on top of maps). I didn't really like using ACDSee for this it turned out (it wasn't as functional as I thought) and I came back to Photo Supreme to give it another go.
I'll go back over the thread you referenced above and also I have been experimenting with the script suggested by sanphotgn above.
Thank you for your help. I appreciate the time and energy you and Geoff have put into my queries. I'm still lost but I'm guessing you guys are the pilot and cockatoo i n the helicopter circling above.
Jeff
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
OK, understood.JeffK wrote: 29 Jan 22 21:50 ultimately it has to work for tens of thousands of images, most of which already have GPS metadata included and many also with populated location metadata fields.
Totally agree, that's the best way.I'm only experimenting with a small subset of these though.
Once you get the hang of PSU you may find it easier than you think. Why do I say this? Because of all the ways PSU lets you search and manipulate the metadata. Eg you could easily group pictures (eg all images taken in a particular time frame) that you knew were taken in a particular spot, and allocate them to a category label under Places. PSU is very powerful in searching and filtering. You can then select images and drag them to a category label, or use the label pane: I neglected to mention that labels can be easily added using the labels pane (click on labels at bottom right of screen, labels pane appears on right hand side) - type the label you want, if existing label not found there is the option to enter a new one (NB when entering make sure it has the correct parent). Places hierarchy needs tidying up? It's easy to drag the labels around in the left pane until the hierarchy is as you want.So in the long term it is not practicable to manually enter the Places hierarchy catalog labels. The inbuilt method appears to work well with only a few glitches. But the question I was asking myself was if I want to do this myself how is it done?
It's as well to have clarity on how metadata is structured and how PSU works, forgive me if you already get this. So: the image file has metadata stored in it. Exif, IPTC, XMP/ labels: various different blocks of metadata. When PSU "ingests" a file it creates an entry for the image in the PSU database - aka the catalog - and it imports a copy of this metadata into the catalog. But it also creates and maintains in the catalog its own data about the image - eg where it is on disk, and - importantly - the category label information. Some of this data it initially populates from the Exif, IPTC, XMP it read in. But mostly, from this point in, you are working with PSU's own data in the catalog. The role of "syncing" is key - it is when you sync an image that PSU writes back to the Exif, IPTC, XMP blocks - both PSU's copy and the image file or sidecar itself - the data you have been working on. One key part of that is that PSU takes your category labels and creates keywords from them. The fine details are controlled by your preference read/write settings and, in the case of keywords, the settings for each particular label (right-click > details).That is, as I expressed above, "My question is having found one or two metadata fields how do I turn them into a catalog item in Photo Supreme. What do I actually do in the program itself. What button do I press, what dialog do I fill? Do I copy the data item I want to use into an ITPC keywords field. I've read the catalog section of the manual twice and I still haven't been able to do it." I have had significant success putting the necessary data into the metadata keyword fields with the program doing the translation to catalog labels effectively. But I still have no certainty that this is how the program is intended to work.
Although I don't have, in my head, complete clarity on what you are trying to do I can't help feeling that this is not productive. I get that you want to futureproof yourself, but this seems akin to saying "I'd like to know whether I can manually flap the wings on my aircraft in case the engines fail". That's a really rubbish analogy but what I mean is that you are trying to make PSU work ina way it wasn't intended, and it wasn't intended to work that way because it has built that functionality in other ways. So what I would recommend is that you fully investigate (a) the filter and search functionality (b) the various views provided by the ribbon options. In other words, explore the functionality the aircraft has provided for flight. Also the label panel is important for most PSU users, and of course in your scenarios the geotag panel will also be important, but I guess you've played with these already.Yes i am aware that I have been trying to do what the program natively does by more efficient means. I wanted to understand what to do if I wanted to do something outside that in the future. No point in loading up thousands of photos and then finding I didn't have the knowledge on how to process them for an as yet unknown desired outcome.
Before PSU had geo functionality I used geosetter but have eliminated that from my workflow now and use PSU to allocate geodata to my images from my GPX files.I'm pretty sure I understand how Places behaves, and I could just use it for my major purpose without further mucking around. But I wanted to know how to do it myself. My photos all have geodata installed and I have used several apps to enter it and manage it in the past; including free ones like geosetter an XNViewMP and paid ones like ACDSee, iMatch and Topofusion (which places photos on gpx tracks/routes on top of maps). I didn't really like using ACDSee for this it turned out (it wasn't as functional as I thought) and I came back to Photo Supreme to give it another go.
No problem. I think I'm the cockatoo!Thank you for your help. I appreciate the time and energy you and Geoff have put into my queries. I'm still lost but I'm guessing you guys are the pilot and cockatoo i n the helicopter circling above.
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Once you get the hang of PSU you may find it easier than you think. Why do I say this? Because of all the ways PSU lets you search and manipulate the metadata. Eg you could easily group pictures (eg all images taken in a particular time frame) that you knew were taken in a particular spot, and allocate them to a category label under Places. PSU is very powerful in searching and filtering. You can then select images and drag them to a category label, or use the label pane: I neglected to mention that labels can be easily added using the labels pane (click on labels at bottom right of screen, labels pane appears on right hand side) - type the label you want, if existing label not found there is the option to enter a new one (NB when entering make sure it has the correct parent). Places hierarchy needs tidying up? It's easy to drag the labels around in the left pane until the hierarchy is as you want. "
Yes plenty of functionality I've still to explore in detail. I've got my head around most of this. One thing though "NB when entering make sure it has the correct parent". How is that done? By doing a drag in the catalog panel. Or is there a field in the label details panel I could be using?
It's as well to have clarity on how metadata is structured and how PSU works,
Yes I feel I have a reasonable handle on this. It took me a while to realise that pressing that OK button down the bottom right hand in the details mode initiates a manual sync. Also a while to appreciate fully that catalog labels reflect, but are not necessarily the same as metadata fields except via keywords and only when the preferences are set up appropriately.
Although I don't have, in my head, complete clarity on what you are trying to do I can't help feeling that this is not productive. I get that you want to futureproof yourself, but this seems akin to saying "I'd like to know whether I can manually flap the wings on my aircraft in case the engines fail". That's a really rubbish analogy but what I mean is that you are trying to make PSU work ina way it wasn't intended, and it wasn't intended to work that way because it has built that functionality in other ways. So what I would recommend is that you fully investigate (a) the filter and search functionality (b) the various views provided by the ribbon options. In other words, explore the functionality the aircraft has provided for flight. Also the label panel is important for most PSU users, and of course in your scenarios the geotag panel will also be important, but I guess you've played with these already.
Yes I will not be going very far down the path of making to make the program work as not designed. That would be counterproductive to futureproofing. That is why I am asking if the creation of flat or hierarchical catalog labels can be done via the metadata keywords. Or is it the designers intent to use the inbuilt translations only, based on the IPTC standard that Geoff posted earlier. What I have been trying to do is create a hierarchical catalog label structure independent of the inbuilt functionality. If that is possible within the design I would like confirmation and the design's intended method, if it is not intended I'll further consider how to proceed.
Before PSU had geo functionality I used geosetter but have eliminated that from my workflow now and use PSU to allocate geodata to my images from my GPX files.
I may well do the same down the track. The reason I haven't yet is that many of my older images have placenames inserted by a database within the camera itself. And that brings me to Makersnotes . But that is another can of worms and because my current camera does not do that I may not go back there. Does your camera have GPS functionality?
Yes you are the cockatoo
Yes plenty of functionality I've still to explore in detail. I've got my head around most of this. One thing though "NB when entering make sure it has the correct parent". How is that done? By doing a drag in the catalog panel. Or is there a field in the label details panel I could be using?
It's as well to have clarity on how metadata is structured and how PSU works,
Yes I feel I have a reasonable handle on this. It took me a while to realise that pressing that OK button down the bottom right hand in the details mode initiates a manual sync. Also a while to appreciate fully that catalog labels reflect, but are not necessarily the same as metadata fields except via keywords and only when the preferences are set up appropriately.
Although I don't have, in my head, complete clarity on what you are trying to do I can't help feeling that this is not productive. I get that you want to futureproof yourself, but this seems akin to saying "I'd like to know whether I can manually flap the wings on my aircraft in case the engines fail". That's a really rubbish analogy but what I mean is that you are trying to make PSU work ina way it wasn't intended, and it wasn't intended to work that way because it has built that functionality in other ways. So what I would recommend is that you fully investigate (a) the filter and search functionality (b) the various views provided by the ribbon options. In other words, explore the functionality the aircraft has provided for flight. Also the label panel is important for most PSU users, and of course in your scenarios the geotag panel will also be important, but I guess you've played with these already.
Yes I will not be going very far down the path of making to make the program work as not designed. That would be counterproductive to futureproofing. That is why I am asking if the creation of flat or hierarchical catalog labels can be done via the metadata keywords. Or is it the designers intent to use the inbuilt translations only, based on the IPTC standard that Geoff posted earlier. What I have been trying to do is create a hierarchical catalog label structure independent of the inbuilt functionality. If that is possible within the design I would like confirmation and the design's intended method, if it is not intended I'll further consider how to proceed.
Before PSU had geo functionality I used geosetter but have eliminated that from my workflow now and use PSU to allocate geodata to my images from my GPX files.
I may well do the same down the track. The reason I haven't yet is that many of my older images have placenames inserted by a database within the camera itself. And that brings me to Makersnotes . But that is another can of worms and because my current camera does not do that I may not go back there. Does your camera have GPS functionality?
Yes you are the cockatoo
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Hi Jeff
Great, sounds like you're getting a good handle on it all.
Must go, I have my breakfast seed to eat and my tray's being cleaned out later
Great, sounds like you're getting a good handle on it all.
You can use either. In the label details dialogue you will see a dropdown for "parent" (it's the second item down) and here you can select a new parent in the hierarchy to replace the existing one (or replace the default one if you are creating a new label).[/quote]By doing a drag in the catalog panel. Or is there a field in the label details panel I could be using?
OK, I think I understand. I think the settings you'll want to experiment with are in the label details dialogue under the "metadata" heading - the "mapped to" setting and the "apply detail profile" setting I thnk are relavent to what you are trying to do. I don't use these much so I'll bow out and let someone else help you with these but I'm sure the help documents explain them.That is why I am asking if the creation of flat or hierarchical catalog labels can be done via the metadata keywords. Or is it the designers intent to use the inbuilt translations only, based on the IPTC standard that Geoff posted earlier. What I have been trying to do is create a hierarchical catalog label structure independent of the inbuilt functionality. If that is possible within the design I would like confirmation and the design's intended method
My cameras (other than the phone cam) don't have GPS, I use my phone to track my movements and produce a GPX file which I then use in PSU to allocate lat/long for pictures. Once an image has lat/long placenames can then be allocated by using reverse lookup (button on the geotag panel - note /1/ to reverse lookup more than one image then don't use the button, instead select images > right-click > operations > geo reverse lookup /2/ this uses a Google service, you will need to set yourself up with it, it's free under a certain limit/month). Or you can enter the placenames and lookup for lat/long.The reason I haven't yet is that many of my older images have placenames inserted by a database within the camera itself. And that brings me to Makersnotes . But that is another can of worms and because my current camera does not do that I may not go back there. Does your camera have GPS functionality?
Must go, I have my breakfast seed to eat and my tray's being cleaned out later
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
haha don't forget to use the tray before it's cleaned out.
I missed that parent setting in the label details somehow. Ive got a related question. If one imports images and they have placename data only the bottom level "location" becomes a catalog label by default. But one can adjust the preferences to include parents of the location also afaik. How does one get the category labels to reflect the change without re-importing the images again?
I'll have another look at the metadata options in the label details dialog. I don't think I could work out how they worked but I'll have another go.
I'll have a go at using my phone to record GPS as you suggest. I already have a Google API for that. I hope to get another camera later but fewer models appear to have the GPS built in.
Thank you.
I missed that parent setting in the label details somehow. Ive got a related question. If one imports images and they have placename data only the bottom level "location" becomes a catalog label by default. But one can adjust the preferences to include parents of the location also afaik. How does one get the category labels to reflect the change without re-importing the images again?
I'll have another look at the metadata options in the label details dialog. I don't think I could work out how they worked but I'll have another go.
I'll have a go at using my phone to record GPS as you suggest. I already have a Google API for that. I hope to get another camera later but fewer models appear to have the GPS built in.
Thank you.
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
You can also control the level of the reading of location levels in the Settings dialog (reading)
and be aware that the Google information isn't as reliable as you might hope, doing Water Sports events if I'm in a Rib then the location information comes back as "Europe" even if I'm in the middle of the river Thames!!!Geoff Mather (G8DHE)
Re: "Auto" creation of category and collection names?
Yes thank you Geoff. I found that one.