Capture One Pro 9 with Photo Supreme Workflow

[NassauBoy]

Hi All,

First Im so glad I found this program. Im a ex-Aperture user and found its DAM to have what I needed. Good keywording, cataloging and fast. Maybe not perfect but overall very nice. With time the editing started to suffer and I augmented with Nik. I have since also discovered Affinity and thus have abandoned Lightroom/PhotoShop Subscription.

My main beef with Capture One Pro 9 (COP) is speed. Opening the program is a killer. I have a Top of the line Late 2012 27" iMac with 32G Ram, i7, 2G Video card, internal SSD for the applications and all data is stored on a large Promise Thunderbolt Raid (Those Units worth the money).

I am running a catalog in COP trying to do what I did in Aperture, but Im coming to the conclusion that I should accept that moving forward there will be the editor/toolset and the DAM. In the end its more flexible, and from what Im seeing of Photo Supreme (PS) it will most likely prevent me in the future being bound to the mercy of any one company should they bankrupt, or just decide to discontinue the product.


From what I can tell, if running COP in Session mode the program is way faster (no huge overhead of images and catalog not in this Session). My thoughts are to:

1. Import RAW Files into COP Session
2. Break out into the session folders the SELECTS etc
3. Cull Any truly missed shots that would never be of any use. (part of step 2)
3. Do the COP Adjustments, and some may go to Affinity or NIK possibly return as TIFF
4. Launch PS, and let it import the session (all the sub folders CAPTURE, SELECTS etc)
5. Do the keywords,labels, ratings in PS


If I proceed this way then my hope is to easily find the Top Shots of the session which PS looks more than capable to do in many different ways. However, at times I may want to see the CAPTURES of that session to see if I missed something. If when searching in PS the CAPTURES and I decide I want to edit the original in COP what is the best way to do this:

- Should I launch COP from inside PS using the launch button, or ...
- Should I go into COP, find the photo, then edit?
- If I move this RAW file in COP from the CAPTURE folder to the SELECT Folder will PS be aware of this and adjust accordingly. Im ok if
I have to tell PS to rescan or something like that.

I do not usually go back to a job, but just want to understand what would happen if I did.



Looking for any guidance before getting too deep into the program the wrong way.

Im still on the trial, but the program looks decent.

Thanks in Advance.

[Stephen]

Welcome to the forum.
Here are the acronyms many are using here:
C1 = Capture One
PSu = Photo Supreme (PS sounds like Photo Shop)

My suggestion as a C1 user (not yet version 9) is to do some testing according to your own workflow and how you would like to work. There are not many C1 users in this forum.

You can also right click on a folder within PSu and elect verify folder. You will then find your selects or output folders or wherever you put your processed files.

Ensure that the C1 / PSu duo work for your requirements. PSu will not see much of the meta data after editing in C1, if that is important for you. That's because they disagree on how the meta data should be handled. You can also add descriptions and keywords afterwards in PSu. There is also a time consuming workaround to rebuild missing metadata if you stack the files.

[NassauBoy]

I had used the Quick Reply Option, but not sure it did anything.

Thanks for advising the proper usage of the abbreviations.


I did some more experimenting both on the SQLLite and the PostgreSQL (quite nice) and I think I have a potential workflow nailed down.

I only use PSu to do the Labels/Keywords and I write them back to the RAW images. Have created new PSu databases and read back in the RAW files that I wrote the Labels to and once back in PSu the Labeling was all nicely back. So imp leased with this. I do opt to use the hierarchal Lightroom method as they call it.

PSu seems to do a good job reading the C1 adjustments, providing you use sessions in C1

You are correct in that using right clicking and finding the PSu image in Finder as the fastest way to get to the RAW image. Doing this, I'm dropped right into the folder where C1 stores the session and Im good to go.


The one thing I have discovered recently is that some of the thumbnails in PSu don't look quite like how they appear in C1, actually way off, and it seems to mainly be the TIFF files. Just wondering if you ever experienced this?

[Stephen]

The one thing I have discovered recently is that some of the thumbnails in PSu don't look quite like how they appear in C1, actually way off, and it seems to mainly be the TIFF files. Just wondering if you ever experienced this?

Yes and some images were way off! It became a lower priority when I found even more urgent issues. Recently it has not been a problem because I changed both the C1 and where I store the files. The problem was when I was putting the images back into the same folder as the originals. Now after I process RAWs in C1, I put the edits in a sub-folder labelled jpeg or TIFF, or whatever. C1 then puts the cos files in that sub folder too. As I say, at the moment it is working and you can always right click and refresh the thumb in case you save a new edit with the save name in the same place. Otherwise, if you are undecided, put one image in jpeg-magenta-cast and the other in jpeg-green-cast and you can display both in PSu and select whichever you need for the job.

BTW, what is the Lightroom method?

[NassauBoy]

Stephen,

I was experimenting last night and coming to the same conclusion that I may be best served to have a folder on the disk named TIFF (inside the session) and put the TIFF files in there for the TIFF processing work. All in all I like C1 for a raw processor, and a quick trip to NIK or Affinity Photo for some work all does the job.

I had read someones C1 Session workflow where they stated they always created TIFF's for photos they wanted to edit and put them in the SELECT folder. They kept the CAPTURE folder to represent the pure capture RAW only. At first this seemed interesting, but then it does add to the disk space used, and would seem to defeat the power of the non destructive C1 editing. If you do all processing in Photoshop/Afinity I guess it makes sense. Some of the C1 guidelines say to move the original RAWs to the Select folder. Either way, for Photo extreme to work the TIFF need to get their own directory. (curious what your work flow is with C1 and PSu)

*smile*
"Lightroom Method" Somewhere I read that the Hierarchal Label Method is termed the Lightroom method. I adopted calling it that because I had read it and because in the XMP ADVANCED there is a Lightroom/lightroom:hierarchical section. I could just be a lemming calling it that

Out of curiosity have you ever tried DX0? I just "rent" C1 right now, so making a switch not a killer. I do like the way you can layout C1 on the screen and is really good if doing portrait style shots as can use full depth of the screen.

[Stephen]

I import directly into PSu, which I think is faster than C1. I then use ChronoSync to back up the files. Only then do I open C1.

I don't use the standard C1 directory structure but make a subfolder to place my jpgs + tiffs.

However, if you can shoot tethered with C1, which I have no need for currently. If you work mostly in a studio then it might be useful for you.

Some DAM proponents suggest separating raws and edits, primarily to enable faster backups. I keep everything together as backups run at night and disk space is cheap. I store everything on external drives.

Much depends on your type of photography and needs. I tried DX0 but cannot find my notes. There was no compelling reason to switch from C1 to DX0.

[NassauBoy]

Stephen,

DXO
I downloaded it and gave it a spin. Lots of nice things I do like about it. The COMPARE button is excellent lol, I do miss a simple compare toggle in C1. If you just want to take a preset the DX0 did some nice work, but you really have to give up some items if leaving C1. So nothing compelling to switch at this time.

WORKFLOW
Part of the reason looking at PSu is the catalog is way too slow in C1, and the key wording rough. BTW CO1 v9 does import/export the hierarchal keywording that is 100% compatible to PSu. The label colours and ratings are bidirectional as well. (I bake the labels into the RAW).

Not sure if Im going to import into PSu First or C1, most likely PSu. I found the fastest way to edit in C1 is to create a BLANK SESSION. C1 will always try to open this as its the last "session/catalog opened) since its blank C1 opens real quick. PSu drops me into the directory structure where my image is and I can just edit in C1. returning to PSu I just have to tell PSu to re-scan the folder. Very acceptable flow.

[Stephen]

<<<DXO
<<<The COMPARE button is excellent lol, I do miss a simple compare toggle in C1.
If you select 2 (or more) images in C1 and press the button with 4 squares, you can show both images on screen and edit them individually.

<<<WORKFLOW
<<<Part of the reason looking at PSu is the catalog is way too slow in C1 and the key wording rough.
Agreed

<<<BTW CO1 v9 does import/export the hierarchal <<<keywording that is 100% compatible to PSu. The label colours and ratings are bidirectional as well. (I bake the labels into the RAW).
Will PSu read the entire meta data of your C1 v9 edited images, i.e. lens information AND focal length? (See Details column > technical in PSu)
That would be useful for me to know.

<<<Not sure if Im going to import into PSu First or C1, most likely PSu.
Cannot remember the reason I chose to import into PSu, but probably speed. PSu enables renaming (which I do) and unsure whether C1 had as much flexibility.

<<< I found the fastest way to edit in C1 is to create a BLANK SESSION. C1 will always try to open this as its the last "session/catalog opened) since its blank C1 opens real quick. PSu drops me into the directory structure where my image is and I can just edit in C1. returning to PSu I just have to tell PSu to re-scan the folder. Very acceptable flow.
If you mark files in PSu and within PSu click the C1 icon top right (this can be selected in preferences > other settings) then C1 will automatically create a fresh session. C1 WILL however (churning away in the background) register all files from that folder and also continually update them until you delete the session.

Is this the way you do it or have you found another road, maybe by finding and selecting the original folder in C1 (under >File > System Folders)?

[NassauBoy]

If you select 2 (or more) images in C1 and press the button with 4 squares, you can show both images on screen and edit them individually.

What I was meaning is (without making a new version of the unedited Raw) I could edit the original, then just press a button to toggle between the edited and original.

Here is a screen capture of Details, there is more in the other containers I did not open, but you seemed interested in lens info.

[ external image ]

Cannot remember the reason I chose to import into PSu, but probably speed. PSu enables renaming (which I do) and unsure whether C1 had as much flexibility.

C1 can rename on import, and within the package as well. I found last night that PSu was taking a bit of time on import.

If you mark files in PSu and within PSu click the C1 icon top right (this can be selected in preferences > other settings) then C1 will automatically create a fresh session. C1 WILL however (churning away in the background) register all files from that folder and also continually update them until you delete the session.

Yes, and after more experimenting last night, its best to just create a regular session for the shoot. It stops C1 from doing all the extra effort in the background. Also, session is nice in that all the data, the changes, pictures are all in one spot. If I take the session to another computer I have everything.

Is this the way you do it or have you found another road, maybe by finding and selecting the original folder in C1 (under >File > System Folders)?

This works well, but like you say C1 then wants to look at everything in the folder.


I was evaluating my core needs. First C1 not bad as all inclusive DAM + EDIT ..... IF it was not so DAM (pun) slow, and if Keyboarding was easier. They made huge progress in v9 but there is quite a way to go. The speed of creating a catalog is absolutely not bearable.. I have 80K images, and there should be way more but I scared to put them in LOL.

Using sessions keeps C1 nice and Fast. So fast I started questioning why I was looking for a DAM. However thats just the point, without a catalog in C1 you have no real DAM where you can search over large groups of data looking for particular images.

With Capture one Sessions is the way to go. You just need to find a good DAM. I might argue that the Editing tool and DAM are better separate anyway as you get the best (or can get the best) of both worlds. I love that PSu lets you bake in the labels etc, and thus you are not stuck in the future.


On another note - Browsing Speed
I do notice when in a browse mode of PSu the images scroll a little slow. I can switch to CLEAN view, but it seems that setting does not stick. I wish it did. Just wondering if there was any trick. I see there is a thumbnail DB so it just seems they should be quicker.


Current Thoughts on Work Flow

• Ingest in C1 as Session, its not too slow really. Renaming on the way in (going to pay the piper either way for C1 to thumbnail)
  Have PSu import the Session, Catalog it, Labels, Geo, colour and number ratings.
  Have PSu purge shots if I did not yet do that in C1 (sessions good for this too)
  Edit in C1 (open session, edit photo) PSu will detect changes on way back in.
  I found C1 creates the JPG quite quickly but will test this in PSu

I really would like to just ingest with PSu, then edit with a program that was less complex and just took the file and thats all it does. DX0 does this part well, its just that the editor does less overall that C1 (feature wise, layers etc ..) However, Im finding Affinity Photo quite a rich tool. For a quick retouch, taking out some dust spots, a little in-painting its quite solid and fast. I bought it, but need to do a couple tutorials. It has a great freq-seperation feature thats a dream to use.

[Stephen]

Thanks, I will contemplate your alternative workflow method.

<<<Here is a screen capture of Details, there is more in the other containers I did not open, but you seemed interested in lens info.

I was more interested in seeing what your C1-9 edited images show in the Details / Technical pane regarding lens information and focal length?

<<<Current Thoughts on Work Flow

<<< Ingest in C1 as Session, its not too slow really. Renaming on the way in (going to pay the piper either way for C1 to thumbnail)
<<< Have PSu import the Session, Catalog it, Labels, Geo, colour and number ratings.
<<< Have PSu purge shots if I did not yet do that in C1 (sessions good for this too)
<<< Edit in C1 (open session, edit photo) PSu will detect changes on way back in.
<<< I found C1 creates the JPG quite quickly but will test this in PSu

I don't see step 1 as being necessary. I frequently don't have time for editing, so just need to get images off the card for backup and safety (camera or media loss, theft or breakdown). When ingesting to PSu I add copyright, important descriptions and keywords to remind me later.

<<<I really would like to just ingest with PSu, then edit with a program that was less complex and just took the file and thats all it does.

That's what Aperture did, but if you need a full set of features, then C1 has them and is also one of the best or maybe the best RAW converter. It will take more than a few weeks to discover its potential however.

Regarding a database and not knowing C1 ver. 9, I would still think that PSu wins. I cannot judge which is more intensive, whether processing all the tiny adjustment files which C1 creates or whether processing everything necessary for database functions as PSU does. I am sure though that C1 would struggle with large numbers of images. I have 100,000 under PSu and speed is acceptable.

<<<Im finding Affinity Photo quite a rich tool. For a quick retouch, taking out some dust spots, a little in-painting its quite solid and fast.
With C1 you only have to de-spot one image and you can then duplicate that command to any number with similar spots of defects.

[HCS]

My workflow between PSU and C1 (CO is quite alright really):

1. copy pictures from card to "inbox" folder on HD (or SSD).
2. import pictures into PSU, renaming and moving on import
3. cull images. i don't really throw away images, but rate the ones i want. i use star rating for this.
4. move images to archive folder(s) in PSU
5. select selects and "send" to C1 in session mode
6. do whatever is required, including output to "output" folder.
7. tag images in PSU to reflect output (website, forum, etc.)
8. if so required, update thumbs in PSU.

I do this from PSU because it supports more than just image files, more than just images from one camera and because i use more than one raw converter.

C1 in session mode will conveniently be "just" a raw converter.

YMMV

[NassauBoy]

Stephen,

Here is the C1 v9 area you wanted to see.

[ external image ]

don't see step 1 as being necessary. I frequently don't have time for editing, so just need to get images off the card for backup and safety (camera or media loss, theft or breakdown). When ingesting to PSu I add copyright, important descriptions and keywords to remind me later.

I know, Im still wanting to import direct to PSu. I see another person posted that does it this way also. I may still see if this step can be skipped.

[NassauBoy]

1. copy pictures from card to "inbox" folder on HD (or SSD).
2. import pictures into PSU, renaming and moving on import
3. cull images. i don't really throw away images, but rate the ones i want. i use star rating for this.
4. move images to archive folder(s) in PSU
5. select selects and "send" to C1 in session mode
6. do whatever is required, including output to "output" folder.
7. tag images in PSU to reflect output (website, forum, etc.)
8. if so required, update thumbs in PSU.

HCS,

Im playing with your workflow to see how this might pan out. What intrigues me is where you say you send your images (selected ones) to C1 in session mode. This is interesting. What are the steps you take to do that? When I select an image in PSu and then click the C1 icon in PSu .. C1 Opens, but it will open the last session (or god forbid my main catalog Zzzz) and then take me to the directory where the image is. At this point C1 wants to build all the internal data for all the images in that folder ... lol.

Now, I actually have not tried sending say 4 images at the same time. If sending multiple images are you saying C1 will "create on the fly" a session for me to wok inside? If so this would be the ideal.

[Stephen]

Stephen,

Here is the C1 v9 area you wanted to see.

[ external image ]

I cannot see your image, I'm afraid. Please try again. I think there might be a problem currently with image display in this forum.

[Stephen]

Now, I actually have not tried sending say 4 images at the same time. If sending multiple images are you saying C1 will "create on the fly" a session for me to wok inside? If so this would be the ideal.

You MUST mark at least 2 images in PSu before opening C1 and you will then get a new session. Other files will 'register' with C1 in the background, but it will not slow you down too much as it creates its cos files.