syncing issues

[Mike Buckley]

In any case, it seems that gaikokujinkyofusho has already resolved his mapping issues.

Not as I understand them. He has used the following workaround and I display part of it in a bold font to bring that part to your attention: "I ended up manually removing the files, compacting the database turning PSU off/on, puting them back, then reimporting... a real uneeded pain but that seemed to work for the mapping part of my issue."

[gaikokujinkyofusho]

Sorry, absence was actually a combination of getting bogged down with work and frustration with PSU. I am back though, for now.

The mapping part of the problem was resolved in that as you quoted I removed the files, then put them back and reimported it. I am still having some of the other issues, like with keywords that (as you correctly deduced I have used other programs in the past, though not at the same time) PSU is adding these old keywords and I am trying to neaten them up and merge and erase them in PSU, then save but I have found that PSU is not saving these changes (and this is not with a file that has mapping issues) so I say, remove/revoke a label/keyword in PSU, save (twice, once through right click -> metadata -> save metadata to file, once via Ctrl+S for good measure) then using something like Xn check IPTC metadata and... all those keywords i nuked in PSU are still there... and I go back into PSU and try to "Read metadata from file" and even though i saved before, and its telling me there is 1 keyword it extracts another keyword... though XN tells me there are actually 3 total keywords... I have tried this randomly on about 5 files and had similar results.

When I look at it in Xn alot of my files have (in addition to regular IPTC keyword metadata) "XMP" information and list these same keywords as "subjects", so it looks like PSU is reading those but not writing to them (or the regular IPTC keywords for that matter), and hence giving me perpetual keywords that refuse to be modified. I then tried to edit the keywords with Xn, that is remove some keywords, and save them to make sure the file wasn't defunct, tried the same with Picasa and was able to do so with no problem. Went back into PSU to read those Xn/Picasa modified files and it showed them as they had been modified... am frusterated. Thoughts?

[tstoddard]

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with your issue but do you have your synchronization settings set to: Write settings -> Keywords processing -> "Replace keywords with Catalog labels"?

As I understand it, PSU will not overwrite existing keywords if you don't do that. This still might not have anything to do with your problem but I thought it would be worth mentioning.

[vlad]

Hi gaikokujinkyofusho,
I will add my voice to Mike's and Tom's suggestions to share with us your synchronize settings (preferably by attaching two different screenshots with your Write and Read settings). As much as we'd like, it's hard to help without that info (although Tom's suggestion might be all you really need, with a bit of luck). Describing your issues in a single phrase over many lines doesn't help following them either

[gaikokujinkyofusho]

Well Tom apparently got part of it. I changed my Keywords processing setting to "Replace keywords with Catalog labels" and now most of the changes I make in PSU are reflected in other programs when I save in PSU but strangely not all, i tried a file and one keyword was still left behind even though the others were removed... I haven't a clue as to why.

Anyway, as for the screenshot request that is more than fair with all the begging for help I have done!

settings.jpg (64.23 KiB) Viewed 7554 times

Any other settings I have that seem "off" please do let me know.

Thanks!

[vlad]

i tried a file and one keyword was still left behind even though the others were removed... I haven't a clue as to why.

Can you provide details where in your hierarchy is the label corresponding to the stubborn keyword and how exactly you attempted its removal? I see that you enabled the writing of all parent level keywords, hence it is possible that the keyword is being written because of an assigned sub-label, even if its corresponding label is unassigned.

[Mike Buckley]

I'm going to go beyond vlad's request for a better understanding of the hierarchy pertaining to the stubborn keyword that is not being removed. Instead, I'm going to ask why you feel it's advantageous to write all parent labels as keywords. You're already writing them as Lightroom hierarchical keywords, so there is no benefit to also writing them to the Keywords metadata field. I recommend that you not include the parent labels as keywords.

On a separate subject, I see that you have disabled writing the catalog data to the IDimager ICS scheme. Assume everything that could possibly go wrong does go wrong including all backup files of your catalog becoming corrupt. If you enable that setting and synch all of your files including those that show they are in synch as a first-time effort, you will be able to automatically recreate your entire catalog including the IDimager proprietary information such as version sets, bookmarks, private catalog labels, portfolios and the like. Once you have completed that first-time synch, you won't need to synch the files again that appear to be in synch.

[gaikokujinkyofusho]

@Vlad. I will get back to that, as its just a few files (that I have noticed) its not bugging me as much as another issue that has cropped up.

@Mike. To be honest I did not know I had half of those settings set, I didn't really tamper much with the settings (though if these weren't the defaults then I guess it was me ). I'll try going with your suggestions as I didn't even know what the "writing the catalog data to the IDimager ICS scheme" was, as for the hierarchical keywords, this is on the edge of my understanding. For me a huge issue is compatibility, I didn't notice I had Lightroom hierarchical keywords set but I prefer to go with whichever is more universally used by other programs. When I search, say in another program I would like to be able to (going with location) specify Europe, or Italy or everything with Europe but not Italy etc, I know simple keywords can make that possible in many programs, are Lightroom hierarchical keywords as standard as regular keywords?

Anyway, about my other question.

In general its been quite stable (thank you!) but lately now that you all have set me straight on most of the labeling/keywording issues I have been trying to neaten the keywords, which for me has been doing things like specifying "all photos w/o keyword North America" and then seeing what I have missed and selecting masses (10s-100s?) of photos and adding a keyword (or removing etc).

Another problem is that now when i try to compact the databases my C drive fills up (completely, like with 10-80kb to spare) and then after like an hour or two I get an error "database or disk is full". That in addition to after using PSU for awhile (that is "labeling" files for awhile, I am sometimes getting a "access violation (0)" error when i try to view a file, and when that happens I can't scroll up down but strangly I can continue to label photos, at least the ones I can see until i need to scroll up/down for more). Thoughts?

[vlad]

I'll try going with your suggestions as I didn't even know what the "writing the catalog data to the IDimager ICS scheme" was

You don't need to care about the details, but that setting is recommended to be able to recreate your PSU catalog data from your images, if somehow your PSU catalog gets corrupted or erased and you don't have a backup. It's an extra safety measure, if you will.

, as for the hierarchical keywords, this is on the edge of my understanding. For me a huge issue is compatibility, I didn't notice I had Lightroom hierarchical keywords set but I prefer to go with whichever is more universally used by other programs.

You don't have to choose: AFAIK, Lightroom hierarchical keywords are compatible with all the other settings, they do not have any drawback and they *will* ensure compatibility with all those programs that do support them. It is a recommended setting. The choice to be made is about the regular keywords: do you want to write there all the keywords for the parent labels or not?

When I search, say in another program I would like to be able to (going with location) specify Europe, or Italy or everything with Europe but not Italy etc, I know simple keywords can make that possible in many programs, are Lightroom hierarchical keywords as standard as regular keywords?

AFAIK, the hierarchical keywords are not as standard as regular keywords. There is a seperate discussion about this and about which keywords to write, you might want to follow it (while skipping the details that don't matter for you): http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=23656

Another problem is that now when i try to compact the databases my C drive fills up (completely, like with 10-80kb to spare) and then after like an hour or two I get an error "database or disk is full". That in addition to after using PSU for awhile (that is "labeling" files for awhile, I am sometimes getting a "access violation (0)" error when i try to view a file, and when that happens I can't scroll up down but strangly I can continue to label photos, at least the ones I can see until i need to scroll up/down for more). Thoughts?

How large is your catalog? What was the available space before compacting the database? In any case, be very careful if your OS is installed on the C drive (as I suspect): I would highly recommend against filling up all its space. (To me, only 10-80kb to spare there means living on the edge!) Perhaps it's time to do some cleanup, or a disk upgrade, or to move your images to a different drive.

[Mike Buckley]

Why would you want to use a different program to conduct your searches?

Another problem is that now when i try to compact the databases my C drive fills up

If I remember correctly, your free disk space needs to be twice the size of the database file(s) being compacted. You can quickly determine the size of your two database files by reviewing the Preferences Catalog settings.

[gaikokujinkyofusho]

First for the database and hard drive. I actually meant that the *database* fills up my hard drive (until there is only a few k left), temporarily at least until it crashes at which point my drives goes back to being relatively free, not that my hard drive is full; I have over 15gb of free space on my drive, more than enough until i try to compact the database (at which point the process takes up all the free space on that drive until PSU crashes i guess giving me that "database or disk is full" error. But i do have quite a bit of free space on that drive. It doesn't seem to crash when I just run compact database, but when i try to run both (which is what i was defaulting to) or run compact thumbnail database separately (I should have done that sooner) then things go south (that is, my hard drive free space disappears temporarily, then PSU crashes). Oh, and the database is just under a gig and the thumbs database is 13gb.

As for another program to do searches, I am thinking in two ways, #1 If PSU stops being supported (already happened with IDI) or #2 say someone else I give photos to wants to search them and doesn't use PSU

Regarding hierarchical keywords, I'll take a look at the other discussion (thanks for the link) and weigh the options.

[Mike Buckley]

I have over 15gb of free space on my drive...the database is just under a gig and the thumbs database is 13gb.

Perhaps you missed my post indicating that you need about 30 gb of free disk space in that situation. As your database files grow, you'll need more and more free disk space.

If PSU stops being supported (already happened with IDI)

If PSU stopped being supported, you could use it so long as it runs on future operating systems. (I was using IDI until a few months ago and planned on being able to use it years more.) Even once it no longer works on a particular operating system, you would import your photos into whatever tool you decide upon and everything would be retained except the proprietary capabilities such as versioning, portfolios, bookmarks and private catalog labels. Alternatively, you could export your PSU catalog to a file that could then be imported into your chosen program.

say someone else I give photos to wants to search them and doesn't use PSU

My guess is that anyone you turn over your photos to will be important enough to you for whatever reason that you wouldn't hesitate to purchase a PSU license for them. Sorry, but it just doesn't make any sense to me to license state-of-the-art software and then use it to dumb down your catalog perhaps at the risk of rendering it less effective or enjoyable for you simply to ensure that inferior software can search your photos.

[gaikokujinkyofusho]

#1 Your right, i did miss that... gads 30gb. Ok boneheaded on my part thanks for restating it.

#2 I actually used IDI for awhile as well but when I upgraded to 8.1 I could not get it to work so figured it was time to try out PSU but did consider other programs and tried importing my IDI catalog and it was not always so smooth, and in general its a bit of a risk (in my opinion) to rely on import/export features rather than standards like reading accepted metadata. to each their own i guess.

#3 For this I guess we will perhaps just have to agree to disagree

[vlad]

If PSU stopped being supported, you could use it so long as it runs on future operating systems. (I was using IDI until a few months ago and planned on being able to use it years more.)

While this is technically true, I would personally be reluctant to use a software as complex as IDI or PSU if it was no longer supported by the developer (including timely fixes for functional defects) and backed up by an active community. Both aspects are a big deal to me w.r.t. PSU. I could possibly give up on the first condition - and perhaps fix problems myself or even become an active developer - if the application was being made available as open source. But, while one always needs to be prepared for the worst case, at the moment I prefer to entertain much happier thoughts than the ceasing of PSU support.

Even once it no longer works on a particular operating system, you would import your photos into whatever tool you decide upon and everything would be retained except the proprietary capabilities such as versioning, portfolios, bookmarks and private catalog labels. Alternatively, you could export your PSU catalog to a file that could then be imported into your chosen program.

Excellent points, Mike! The inter-operability of both IDI and PSU has been a big selling point to me. (If these applications had just as great a functionality, but they were not closely following the standards or their architecture was not as open, then I would have had quite a dilemma on whether to rely on them.) That's why I don't really understand the following comment:

in general its a bit of a risk (in my opinion) to rely on import/export features rather than standards like reading accepted metadata.

I don't get the use of "rather than": it seems to me, once again, a false choice.

[Mike Buckley]

I would personally be reluctant to use a software as complex as IDI or PSU if it was no longer supported by the developer

Though I admittedly don't know nearly as much about software as almost everyone participating here, I really don't understand that logic. If I've been using any software for years because it has been meeting my needs, it's not as if all of a sudden it's going to stop working. If a program file becomes corrupted, I would simply reinstall the software.