Manual

Stephen
Posts: 657
Joined: 01 Oct 14 10:15

Manual

Post by Stephen » 01 Oct 14 10:51

Is there a manual available for Photo Supreme 2 please?
Never say never change, but using Mac since 2005. Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2605. I endorse the interoperability of files between applications and systems.

DirkS
moderator
Posts: 3938
Joined: 25 May 08 14:28
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Manual

Post by DirkS » 01 Oct 14 11:29

There are Quick Manuals available from the PSu Help menu.
These are all PDF files that you can save to disk.

Gr.
Dirk.
Problems searching the forum? Try Google Site Search by adding 'site:forum.idimager.com' to a standard Google search.

Stephen
Posts: 657
Joined: 01 Oct 14 10:15

Re: Manual

Post by Stephen » 01 Oct 14 11:41

Thanks, I have those but was looking for something more substantial.
Never say never change, but using Mac since 2005. Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2605. I endorse the interoperability of files between applications and systems.

Hert
Posts: 15909
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Manual

Post by Hert » 01 Oct 14 11:58

First of all a warm welcome to the forum
I have those but was looking for something more substantial.
Then I assume that you're looking for something particular?
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Stephen
Posts: 657
Joined: 01 Oct 14 10:15

Re: Manual

Post by Stephen » 01 Oct 14 14:42

Yes, I am looking for help with importing from Aperture. I will start a new thread
Never say never change, but using Mac since 2005. Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2605. I endorse the interoperability of files between applications and systems.

mrl
Posts: 85
Joined: 17 Oct 08 17:46

Re: Manual

Post by mrl » 14 Nov 14 2:43

I too was surprised that there is not a more substantial manual. As I've discussed in another thread, I've been trying to understand versioning, but without the kind of documentation that I expected, I'm finding it impossible. Will there be a full user's manual at some point?

gaikokujinkyofusho
Posts: 75
Joined: 20 Jan 07 16:35

Re: Manual

Post by gaikokujinkyofusho » 30 Nov 14 17:24

Ditto
M$ Win10 x64, 16gb ram w/ i5 proc
Photo Supreme build 2.2.5.1045

lippe
Posts: 1067
Joined: 12 Aug 06 12:26
Location: Wondelgem (Belgium)

Re: Manual

Post by lippe » 01 Dec 14 9:06

I don't think a 'substantial' manual will be available in the near future for Photo Supreme. Creating such a manual will need resources that currently not available. A physical printed manual will be outdated even before it is created. This is one of the weakest point of Photo Supreme and its predecessors, the documentation can holdup with the rapid development of the software it-selves.
There is a reason why the forum is alive and very active: It is the number one source to get up-to-date information. And even it is user-based support forum, Hert is actively monitoring the treads that need attention.
Around 2008, there was a IDimager-Wiki where users contributed information on some aspects. It never reached the state of completeness and the project is largely lost and most information is now outdated.
In 2010, Mike Buckley created his 'IDimager version 5 Workbook', a private initiative with the support of Hert and the users of that area. Strictly not a manual but an impressive guide for cataloging and managing your digital photographs. If i rememberer correctly, the creation took more than one year. While the cataloging aspects still are valid, it was written and based on the discontinued IDimager V5 (two years later).
I have to conclude there is a need of a 'complete' manual, but I doubt there will ever be...

(This is not an official statement, just mypersonal opinion based on what was happening on that subject in the previous years)
Photo Supreme V3, LR6, FPV, PSE14 - vaio i5 @ 2.5GHz + 8GB , 850 EVO 500GB - WD 1TB - Windows 10 Pro 64 bits- DS216play - EOS 600D

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Manual

Post by Mike Buckley » 01 Dec 14 13:48

I don't remember how long it took to write the eBook that I created for IDimager V5 along with MikeP's help. If I were to do it again, I would do it in about half to two-thirds the time. That's because every capability was explained twice, in a reference area the reader could use to look up stuff and in another area that the reader learned each capability by cataloging image files from beginning to end of the workflow. If I were to do it again I would only provide the reference area. Hert, his team, MikeP and many people participating in this forum were extremely helpful.

The primary reason I didn't create any eBooks for later cataloging products is that it was purely a personal choice that doing so wasn't how I wanted to spend my time. I made that determination long before I released the eBook.

I mention all of this just in case it's helpful to anyone considering a similar project pertaining to Photo Supreme.

vlad
Posts: 969
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: Manual

Post by vlad » 04 Dec 14 1:11

I'll offer my personal opinion too.

Realistically, as much as we'd often like to have our cake and eat it too, I believe there is a choice to be made (by the IDimager staff, based on their own analysis and strategy, which may obviously include the user feedback) whereabout to place the product in the Feature Complexity x Doc Quality x Release Time x FR Responsiveness x Cost equation:
- at one extreme, PSU would have top-notch (that is: clear, accurate, comprehenisve) documentation, but (given its intrinsic complexity) it would evolve quite slowly. (The time between major versions would be longer, any incremental updates would be very carefully considered and triple-checked against all aspects of documentation, tutorials etc.)
- at the other extreme, the product would be extremely agile (new features and improvements would be considered and implemented very fast, even when they may occasionally be disruptive), but the official documentation would probably be minimal and/or not up-to-date, with the self-explanatory aspects of the interface + crowd knowledge sharing playing the essential roles.

From a user perspective, I personally consider the current state of PSU (product quality x doc quality x product cost x release time) to be well balanced. It is true that no complete manual exists (and that may be a deterrent especially for new DAM users), but the hovering hints + quick manuals + crowd knowledge + Hert's feedback in Mantis+forum work well for me, overall. Frankly, if I were to (slightly) tip the balance, I would likely vote for (slightly) faster development, even if that meant the official docs would have a bit of catch-up to do. (I'm talking about the manuals, not about the hovering hints in the interface - I expect those to always be accurate and up-to-date.) But I do realize that is just my own opinion, based on my own learning style, and I may well be in minority here.

Regarding Mike's workbook: I haven't had the pleasure of reading it, but I am pretty sure something similar for Photo Supreme would be more than welcome (and possibly even more useful than a complete manual).

HaraldE
Posts: 389
Joined: 29 Apr 07 22:30
Location: Bålsta, Sweden

Re: Manual

Post by HaraldE » 04 Dec 14 1:50

Morning,

I doubt a true and technical Manual will stay up with the evolvement of PSU so I would like to raise an alternative suggestion ... a Reference.

Information about PSU is availale in a number of places, for example:
> Quick start guides
> Builtin Hint system
> This very Forum
> Sometimes you get info when you hover the pointer over an area
> Some specific web-pages
... and so on

I am not aware of any place or document that makes a plain listing of all these sources. And explain purpose of each. I would see this as a Reference to sources of information, a pointer to where to look things up. Maybe it could also be a place where Mantis is briefly explained.

To get something out of the door it has to be manageable and I feel this is. Also I believe it could be on enough high level to cope with PSU updates.
And (if it would be of interest) the scope could also gradually be increased to include further user related advice / suggestions that is of value.
I believe such a doc could be of value as long as it mainly contains pointers. It is when facts and scripts and twists and such are included that it gets messy. Then it needs maintenance of a scale that I feel may be too much.

This is just my token into the discussion. Feel this could be of help to any new user. Be aware, I am talking about somethings that would initially be a few pages long, so nothing large. Could probably be created in this forum, by each suggesting pointers and someone adding them up to a Reference thing.

Now, don't tell me such a Reference already exists and I wasn't told about it. If so I will be quiet rest of the year!!!

Regards, Harald

PhilBurton
Posts: 312
Joined: 12 Sep 10 18:47
Location: CA, USA

Re: Manual

Post by PhilBurton » 05 Nov 15 0:45

HaraldE wrote:Morning,

I doubt a true and technical Manual will stay up with the evolvement of PSU so I would like to raise an alternative suggestion ... a Reference.

Information about PSU is availale in a number of places, for example:
> Quick start guides
> Builtin Hint system
> This very Forum
> Sometimes you get info when you hover the pointer over an area
> Some specific web-pages
... and so on

I am not aware of any place or document that makes a plain listing of all these sources. And explain purpose of each. I would see this as a Reference to sources of information, a pointer to where to look things up. Maybe it could also be a place where Mantis is briefly explained.

To get something out of the door it has to be manageable and I feel this is. Also I believe it could be on enough high level to cope with PSU updates.
And (if it would be of interest) the scope could also gradually be increased to include further user related advice / suggestions that is of value.
I believe such a doc could be of value as long as it mainly contains pointers. It is when facts and scripts and twists and such are included that it gets messy. Then it needs maintenance of a scale that I feel may be too much.

This is just my token into the discussion. Feel this could be of help to any new user. Be aware, I am talking about somethings that would initially be a few pages long, so nothing large. Could probably be created in this forum, by each suggesting pointers and someone adding them up to a Reference thing.

Now, don't tell me such a Reference already exists and I wasn't told about it. If so I will be quiet rest of the year!!!

Regards, Harald
Harald, Mike Buckly, Hert, and everyone else:

I know this thread is almost a year old, but I found it interesting. So here is a proposal for discussion.

We do a "crowdsourced" manual. That is, we (somehow) agree on a table of contents, and then everyone can contribute their expertise. Harald's post might be a good starting point. Or,someone can ask for have a feature documented in detail. Is this a wiki? A Google Docs file? Something else?

I would suggest that the long-term goal be to help new users learn to use PSU so PSU becomes the go-to tool for image cataloging and metadata, just as important as tools like Lightroom, PhotoShop, or Capture One.

Phil
Photo Supreme user
Home built i7 3930, 32 GB RAM, Win 10 Pro 64, latest version of Photo Supreme 3, Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS 6 (perpetual licenses)

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Manual

Post by Mike Buckley » 05 Nov 15 3:45

Phil,

My thinking is that if there is not a single person who is motivated enough by the economic opportunities to create and publish a manual, the far more time-consuming aspect of creating one by crowd-sourcing methods can't be justified unless those aspects of the project are in and of themselves appealing to the hobbyists involved. If the hobby appeal is sufficient, by all means that in itself justifies the project to the people participating in it.

I am admittedly biased by my experience of creating the IDimager Version 5 Workbook when the bureaucracy was limited by design to Mike Phillips and me, but I don't think the crowd-sourcing model will be effective enough given the speed at which Hert's product changes. Add to that that everyone involved in the project will be a volunteer with no opportunity for economic gain. Those volunteers will likely not always be available to respond to the changes on a timely basis because, after all, they are understandably only volunteers.

The primary difference between Supreme's product category and the product category of Lightroom, Photoshop and Capture One that you mentioned is that the target market of Supreme's product category is so much smaller. Therefore, it's not viable in my mind to compare the two product categories when trying to justify the project you mentioned whether accomplished as a crowd-sourcing model or otherwise.

PhilBurton
Posts: 312
Joined: 12 Sep 10 18:47
Location: CA, USA

Re: Manual

Post by PhilBurton » 05 Nov 15 6:13

Mike Buckley wrote:Phil,

My thinking is that if there is not a single person who is motivated enough by the economic opportunities to create and publish a manual, the far more time-consuming aspect of creating one by crowd-sourcing methods can't be justified unless those aspects of the project are in and of themselves appealing to the hobbyists involved. If the hobby appeal is sufficient, by all means that in itself justifies the project to the people participating in it.

I am admittedly biased by my experience of creating the IDimager Version 5 Workbook when the bureaucracy was limited by design to Mike Phillips and me, but I don't think the crowd-sourcing model will be effective enough given the speed at which Hert's product changes. Add to that that everyone involved in the project will be a volunteer with no opportunity for economic gain. Those volunteers will likely not always be available to respond to the changes on a timely basis because, after all, they are understandably only volunteers.

The primary difference between Supreme's product category and the product category of Lightroom, Photoshop and Capture One that you mentioned is that the target market of Supreme's product category is so much smaller. Therefore, it's not viable in my mind to compare the two product categories when trying to justify the project you mentioned whether accomplished as a crowd-sourcing model or otherwise.
Mike,

You raise very good points. My impression is that Hert does a major release about every 15-18 months. There is always this debate about what constitutes a major release, but can we set that aside for now.

As for motivation, it certainly can't be economic. It could be somethinig like, "Put something in the pot, take something from the pot." Some of us seem, not me, at least not yet, have enough expertise to write very good emails explaining how a feature worked. What if we harnessed all that expertise? Again, it's just an idea.

I agree that the market for Photo Supreme is much smaller than for Lightroom. However, PSU is not the only DAM on the market, but it is one of the most sophisticated. It might not be powerful enough for a Getty Images, but it could displace a bunch of other business-oriented DAMs like Extensis and Canto. And the single-user version could, with some ease-of-use improvements including documentation, blow all of that competition out of the water.

Wearing my product manager hat, PSU needs better documentation and better ease of use. We users can't change the interface. Only Hert can decide to do that. But we can make the product easier to use with better documentation. Call it enlightened self-interest. I'm willing to do my part.

Why do I talk like this? In the world of software, it's grow or die. And you grow by enlarging the market AND taking market share. No, Hert did not put me up to writing this. :D

Phil Burton.
Photo Supreme user
Home built i7 3930, 32 GB RAM, Win 10 Pro 64, latest version of Photo Supreme 3, Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS 6 (perpetual licenses)

Mke
Posts: 431
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Manual

Post by Mke » 05 Nov 15 19:47

Phil,

I agree with your desire to see PSU continue to succeed, and also that - particularly for new users (or at least those that like to turn to a manual) improved documentation would help. I'm sure that even the reassurance that a 'manual' exists would help to sell the product to some, even if it's rarely or never used.

If your idea was to go forward, then a wiki would be an obvious candidate, and wikifying the existing 'quick manuals' would be a good launch point. However I do rather doubt that there would be enough people to make it happen on a volunteer basis - and to manage / police it. I doubt, for example, that I'd have spare time to contribute anything useful.

On a positive note, though, we do have an exceptionally good forum here, offering helpful and rapid advice, which is surely a big plus for anyone moving to PSU.

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