Label Assignment Panel Requests

InTheFlow
Posts: 58
Joined: 03 Jun 08 21:14

Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by InTheFlow » 29 Oct 12 6:09

I have some ideas for the LAP that others might also like.

Back in 2008, Hert made the IDi4 users a great cloud catalog label script. It was font size weighted and was my favorite feature. I'd love to have something like that again.

1. Font-Size-Weighted Label Cloud section.
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LabelCloudIdea.gif (57.85 KiB) Viewed 6750 times
I've noticed several people that seem to be interested in having a Favorite Labels section. I agree! :D

2. Favorite Label section
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FavoriteLabelsIdea.gif (45.86 KiB) Viewed 6750 times
I think both ideas are congruent with Photo Supreme's focus on ease of use (with a V8 under the hood). Anyone else like these ideas?
Hert, what do you and your team think?

Lou_Salkind
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Lou_Salkind » 29 Oct 12 7:30

How would Favorite Labels work different than just creating a New Label Set called "Favorites"?

Hert
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Hert » 29 Oct 12 7:31

Thank you for the suggestion.

It makes sense to me to include FAVORITES in the Label Assignment Panel. These are the favorized labels as added to the favorites. Unlike your suggestion, this is not configurable.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Hert
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Hert » 29 Oct 12 7:46

Lou_Salkind wrote:How would Favorite Labels work different than just creating a New Label Set called "Favorites"?
Yes, you can easily create a label set named "Favorites" to cover that part.
The way I've implemented it is that the labels from the Favorites (stared in the Catalog Explorer) are also available in the LAP. To me that made sense because currently you can't use your favorites in the label assignment activity.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

InTheFlow
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by InTheFlow » 29 Oct 12 8:05

Hert/IDimager wrote:
Lou_Salkind wrote:How would Favorite Labels work different than just creating a New Label Set called "Favorites"?
Yes, you can easily create a label set named "Favorites" to cover that part.
The way I've implemented it is that the labels from the Favorites (stared in the Catalog Explorer) are also available in the LAP. To me that made sense because currently you can't use your favorites in the label assignment activity.

Hert
I clicked a star to make a label a favorite but it wasn't brought over to the LAP. At least not anywhere I could see. What am I missing?

@Lou...I hadn't thought of that. I would like it to be automatic somehow though...

Hert
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Hert » 29 Oct 12 10:13

InTheFlow wrote:I clicked a star to make a label a favorite but it wasn't brought over to the LAP. At least not anywhere I could see. What am I missing?
You're not missing anything; it's in the next update; it's built based on your request from earlier today.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

jstartin
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by jstartin » 29 Oct 12 15:56

Hert's intention to add a favorites section to give quick, static access to "favorite labels" does sound excellent - I look forward to trying it.

I would still like the option of switching the LAP (via a tabbed view?) to a label tree and check boxes for assignment, especially for situations where I want to apply quite a few labels to an image and none are in the "recently used" section.

I would like to be able to clear the "recently used" section when none of the last-used labels are appropriate to the next batch of images, and let it repopulate itself "from scratch". Well, to be honest this is a "maybe" - I would like to be able to try this and see if it is helpful , because I don't really know :wink: .

"Maybe", a "by number of assigned labels" sort order for the collection viewer would be useful?
Last edited by jstartin on 29 Oct 12 20:59, edited 1 time in total.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

Mike Buckley
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Mike Buckley » 29 Oct 12 17:36

jstartin wrote: I would like to be able to clear the "recently used" section when none of the last-used labels are appropriate to the next batch of images, and let it repopulate itself "from scratch".
The LAP's "Recently Used" section already repopulates automatically without clearing first. I can't think of any advantage to clearing the labels and I can think of reasons not to clear them.

jstartin
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by jstartin » 29 Oct 12 21:18

Mike Buckley wrote:
jstartin wrote: I would like to be able to clear the "recently used" section when none of the last-used labels are appropriate to the next batch of images, and let it repopulate itself "from scratch".
The LAP's "Recently Used" section already repopulates automatically without clearing first.
Yes it does. But it is the "from scratch" qualifier that I was thinking about - at the moment stuff that is relevant to what I am doing "now" still slowly works its way up a list that was relevant yesterday, but isn't today. I find this a bit distracting. Perhaps I need to fiddle around with the number of recent items that are shown.
I can't think of any advantage to clearing the labels and I can think of reasons not to clear them.
The advantage might be to work on "now" without clutter from "before". Clearing (much as can be done in many parts of Windows, and many applications) would be a deliberate action, not automatic or compulsory.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

InTheFlow
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by InTheFlow » 29 Oct 12 23:02

Hert/IDimager wrote:You're not missing anything; it's in the next update; it's built based on your request from earlier today.

Hert
Wow...that is highly impressive, thank you Hert!

Based on that and the upcoming Drag Select fix, it looks like we are all going to enjoy the same stellar support for PS that we've become so used to when purchasing a product from Hert. 8)

InTheFlow
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by InTheFlow » 30 Oct 12 0:19

jstartin wrote:"Maybe", a "by number of assigned labels" sort order for the collection viewer would be useful?
I could see that being helpful. I think once you are able to use a favorites section, the need for the recently used ones will become less important.

It would be greatly beneficial if the recently used section was modified to work more like my first idea. Setting a fixed value is a bit rough on people who are labeling a large number of different picture types because, the ones used earlier drop off the list before you are ready for them to. This won't be as big of a problem once the FAVORITES section is added but it still isn't ideal.

That was the beauty of Hert's original image label assignment panel script. It would grow as needed and the font size weighting allowed you to sit back from the computer more. You could easily see the labels you you've been using the most of, yet still have access to the ones used only once or twice. It was totally easy to use! I think of it as a 'Recent Labels' group on steroids!!! :D

I wish I had a picture of the original creation for you guys! Does anyone else have a screenshot of it?

EDIT:
jstartin wrote:I would still like the option of switching the LAP (via a tabbed view?) to a label tree and check boxes for assignment, especially for situations where I want to apply quite a few labels to an image and none are in the "recently used" section.
For me, that would be too complicated to use. I want it to keep being easy to work with. Part of what made IDi too complex for me is that there were a multitude of ways to do the same thing. I'm not against having meaningful choices. I'm just not interested in 'six, or half dozen the other' type of choices, so to speak.

Hypothetically speaking, if you had access to a more robust Recently Used label section and the (upcoming) FAVORITES section, would you really need a label tree too? If so, what direct benefit does it bring to Photo Supreme's users?

Lars helped me see something similar in a request I made in another thread. I wanted all the sub pictures to display when clicking the parent label. However, the functionality is already available...we just click the oval circle where the numbers are. Adding that idea of mine would have made a streamlined system more complex for zero gain. :oops:

jstartin
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by jstartin » 30 Oct 12 12:06

InTheFlow wrote:...That was the beauty of Hert's original image label assignment panel script. It would grow as needed and the font size weighting allowed you to sit back from the computer more. You could easily see the labels you you've been using the most of, yet still have access to the ones used only once or twice. It was totally easy to use! I think of it as a 'Recent Labels' group on steroids!!!
I wish I had a picture of the original creation for you guys! Does anyone else have a screenshot of it?
Still available at http://scripts.idimager.com/cgi-bin/idi ... 92fce07100
InTheFlow wrote:EDIT:
jstartin wrote:I would still like the option of switching the LAP (via a tabbed view?) to a label tree and check boxes for assignment, especially for situations where I want to apply quite a few labels to an image and none are in the "recently used" section.
For me, that would be too complicated to use. I want it to keep being easy to work with. Part of what made IDi too complex for me is that there were a multitude of ways to do the same thing. I'm not against having meaningful choices. I'm just not interested in 'six, or half dozen the other' type of choices, so to speak.
Hypothetically speaking, if you had access to a more robust Recently Used label section and the (upcoming) FAVORITES section, would you really need a label tree too? If so, what direct benefit does it bring to Photo Supreme's users?
Personally I would prefer to have a tree view - quite a strong preference, but not an absolute need.

The thing about well implemented alternative ways of achieving a result is that users have a choice; they can stick to methods/presentations they like and ignore the others. If the interface that gives the choice is well designed this should lead to wider user acceptance. However, if Hert doesn't think an idea would "add value" for the majority of users, or even for a significant minority, I wouldn't expect him to implement it.

I did try the scripted "label cloud" when Hert introduced it, and hated it. The script is still on my current PC (I still use IDI 4), and I have just tried it again. I still find it useless to me. However,it is your favorite thing. If it was implemented in PSu in a way that I could easily ignore I wouldn't mind - you could use your preference and I could use mine. On the other hand, if I was forced to use it to operate in PSu then I would uninstall and look elsewhere.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

InTheFlow
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by InTheFlow » 30 Oct 12 23:35

Thanks for the quality feedback, Jim. I didn't know that anyone actually disliked that. Maybe it was very unpopular and is the reason it was removed. I have no idea. You make a good point about different ways to do the same thing possibly leading to wider user acceptance, I hadn't thought of it that way.

So, can you share how a tree view works better in your workflow than just assigning a label that has it's parent labels automatically added? I'm not trying to make you mad, simply curious how it helps make things easier.

If I have a label named 'Julie' that is set to automatically assign parent labels and the hierarchy is: People > Friends > Birthday Parties > Aunt > 1986 > 'Julie'

All I have to do to get all of the labels assigned to the image is to choose 'Julie' from my label panel. At that point, bam!...they are all assigned. I wouldn't personally want to go to a tree view and click a checkmark for each one of the labels I want. I haven't had as much experience cataloging as you so maybe there is something I'm overlooking in the example above.

EDIT: The favorites option has been added! Near as I can tell, it isn't limited to a specific set number. 8) Thank you, Hert!

jstartin
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by jstartin » 31 Oct 12 15:04

InTheFlow wrote:Thanks for the quality feedback, Jim. I didn't know that anyone actually disliked that. Maybe it was very unpopular and is the reason it was removed. I have no idea.
I don't think the "cloud" ever became a built in feature of IDI. The script is still available from the IDI resource repository, so it hasn't actually been removed. It doesn't work with PSu though.
So, can you share how a tree view works better in your workflow than just assigning a label that has it's parent labels automatically added? I'm not trying to make you mad, simply curious how it helps make things easier.
If I have a label named 'Julie' that is set to automatically assign parent labels and the hierarchy is: People > Friends > Birthday Parties > Aunt > 1986 > 'Julie'
All I have to do to get all of the labels assigned to the image is to choose 'Julie' from my label panel. At that point, bam!...they are all assigned. I wouldn't personally want to go to a tree view and click a checkmark for each one of the labels I want. I haven't had as much experience cataloging as you so maybe there is something I'm overlooking in the example above.
An apparently simple question is going to take a long answer :wink:

First of all, you are overlooking something in your comparison! It is the label properties that determine whether parents are also assigned, not the method by which the label is assigned. If "Julie" is set up like that, then applying "Julie" to an image will always assign parents however you make the assignment. It makes no difference to the result whether you type "Julie" in the LAP, find "Julie" in "Recently Used", drag and drop an image onto "Julie" in the catalog, "favoritize" "Julie" in the catalog so that it appears in the new LAP section and then select from there, or (if Hert implements my preference) tick "Julie" in an assignment tree.

I don't use the same sort of label structure as your example. I would probably have "Events.Birthdays.Aunt.1986.Party" & "People.<Family name>.Julie" & "Locations.<Someone's house>.<Room/Garden etc>". Some photos might get a label in my "Themes" category - "Themes.Dancing", "Themes.Eating" ....

When I come to catalog the "shoot" some of the labels will probably already exist - People...., Locations...., Themes.... etc, but I will want to look through the catalog tree to remind myself exactly what is there, what the exact labels are, how they are arranged. I would probably create an Events label at this stage. With Hert's new Favorite facility I will be able to "favoritize" the labels I will need from the catalog view on the left of PSu, and later apply them from buttons in the assign panel - that's good, but wouldn't it sometimes be easier to go the extra mile and apply them from a catalog tree view? I often decide to do that in IDI, but the switchable catalog explorer/assignment tree tends to confuse me if I am not concentrating - am I going to assign labels by mistake when I meant to build a search, or search when I want to assign? So a separate tree & checkbox view in the LAP seems an attractive idea to me.

It comes down to what suits each individual user. I am not a professional photographer nor a professional user of photographs.
I don't have to catalog at all, but I want to be able to find things easily. Assigning the labels to allow this is not an end in itself, and can feel very much of a chore. To find the motivation to do it I like to make it "fun" if I can, and quick and easy. Changing the method from time to time is "fun", and often I find the IDI assignment view of the catalog to be quickest and easiest, despite its pitfalls.

Scenario 1: I am labeling some photos of groups of people. Each photo contains 3 or 4 people out of a total 10 who were "there". All are different combinations. Is it easier to tick the right "people boxes" shot by shot, deal with a constantly rearranging "recents" panel, or set them all as favorites and then unset them again later? For me it is the first of these, but it may be different for others.

Scenario 2: I am labeling photos taken on a walk somewhere local, where I often go. Subjects will be different "takes" on scenes or objects I have photographed before. What label did I create for that group of trees - "The Pines", "Five Pines", "Pine Trees at ...."? My natural instinct is to look in the catalog, using the hierarchy to get to the correct label in "Objects". Why should I then have to type this into the LAP and look through a list of possible hits to apply it? Easier to review my labels via a right hand side assignment tree and tick the one I want.

Scenario 3: Photographs taken during a long hill walk traversing a number of summits. I will have photos of "B" from "A", and later "A" from "B", as well as "C" from "A" and "C" from "B" etc. And from the next day perhaps "A" and "B" and "C" as a group taken from "D". "Recently used" will become populated with multiple instances of A, B, C etc (as camera location and as subject - "from" and "of") represented as single words without hierarchical context (unless I hover over each) and which constantly rearrange themselves and change position and order as I apply them. I could add some extra text to "from" and "of" keywords to distinguish them, but, since one of the great strengths of IDimager's line of DAM products is hierarchical labels, I should not have to.

There you are then: partly it is my personal preference and what I find convenient, and partly a belief that hierarchical labels should be applied in an environment that facilitates hierarchical labeling.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

InTheFlow
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by InTheFlow » 01 Nov 12 1:45

Wow, thank you Jim! What you say makes a lot of sense to me. Are others interested in the type of labeling ability that Jim describes?

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