Keywords and such

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weisswelsh
Posts: 34
Joined: 31 Jan 12 8:01

Keywords and such

Post by weisswelsh » 05 Jan 14 22:14

Hello,

I have read through the forum concerning assigning keywords and most of the discussion is way over my head. Perhaps someone can help me. I currently use IDimager Professional V5. I downloaded the trial version of Photo Supreme hoping to conclude whether I should get it considering the special price ends today. I don't think I'll be able to answer that question prior to the deal ending today, but I'll try. Here's my question...........

I use IDimager V5 for only one purpose and that is to put keywords on my photos in a hierarchical structure, so that I can easily search for photos. I use absolutely nothing else in this program. I currently use a delimiter "/" between keywords in the same hierarchy.

QUESTION #1 -- Does Photo Supreme allow delimiters? I can't seem to find it.

QUESTION #2 -- In the forums I read that using a delimiter is not recommended. I just want to do what is best, but I want to still be able to have all my photos key-worded in a hierarchical structure that I can easily search for photos based on that hierarchy now and in the future. What is the best way to do that?

QUESTION #3 -- If i don't use delimiters any longer, is there a way to convert all my old photo keywords that do use the delimiter to the new way I'm supposed to so it?

Thanks so much. Please remember I don't understand ANYTHING about Lightroom, XMP, metadata and all that kind of stuff.

Bob

Hert
Posts: 15912
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Keywords and such

Post by Hert » 05 Jan 14 22:59

Hi Bob,
QUESTION #1 -- Does Photo Supreme allow delimiters? I can't seem to find it.
Yes, see Preferences -> Synchronize Settings -> Write delimited Keywords
QUESTION #2 -- In the forums I read that using a delimiter is not recommended. I just want to do what is best, but I want to still be able to have all my photos key-worded in a hierarchical structure that I can easily search for photos based on that hierarchy now and in the future. What is the best way to do that?
I made that advise against delimited keywords because time has brought up the lightroom hierarchical keywords. Those provide the same purpose as the delimited keywords once did. But the advantage is that these keywords are better exchangeable with other tools. So even when you don't use Lightroom, I do recommend to switch on the setting to write out lightroom keywords (ON by default in PSU). You can also keep them both on.
A.f.a.i.k. Some Microsoft tools still have a purpose for delimited keywords and the forward slash delimiter.

You can switch by turning off delimited keywords, make sure Lightroom keywords are on, and then write out metadata to your files, optionally forced with right click -> Metadata -> Save Metadata to File. But when you're not using other tools that depend on your keywording then I see no harm in opting to just move on and let it write so from now on.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

weisswelsh
Posts: 34
Joined: 31 Jan 12 8:01

Re: Keywords and such

Post by weisswelsh » 06 Jan 14 1:27

Thank you Hert,

Two more questions:

I think you answered this one, but I want to double-check........ If I continue to use delimited keywords using the "/" delimiter AND have it write "Lightroom Hierarchical Keywords," will that be OK for the future, or is it a bad idea to do both? Conflicts?

The second question concerns "parent level keywords." There is an option to turn this on. Does this mean that the hierarchical keyword "People/Relatives/Hayes/John" will also contain the keywords "People", "Relatives", "Hayes" and "John"? Recommended or not recommended?

Thanks again for everything.

Bob

flossie
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 May 12 10:25
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: Keywords and such

Post by flossie » 07 Jan 14 0:26

Hi Bob, I'm not a super-user or anything, but have been using IDI/PSU for a while. I don't use delimited, only hierarchical, and do find parent level keywords really helpful. My 2c.
Cheers & Happy New Year,
Laura

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Keywords and such

Post by Mike Buckley » 07 Jan 14 1:23

weisswelsh wrote:I think you answered this one, but I want to double-check........ If I continue to use delimited keywords using the "/" delimiter AND have it write "Lightroom Hierarchical Keywords," will that be OK for the future, or is it a bad idea to do both? Conflicts?
It's not that you will have conflicts. However, I do think it's a bad idea to use both methods. When you embed the keywords in your physical image files, you will have two sets of keywords. That potentially makes for a confusing situation with nothing that I can thing of that would be an offsetting benefit. If you use only Lightroom Keywords, you have everything you could need. So, consider the following question: Why would you want both sets of keywords embedded in your physical image files? If you can't think of a reason, don't use both of them.

If you are using the David Riecks Controlled Vocabulary and the delimited keywords using the forward slash character as the delimiter, you will definitely have a conflict. That's because David uses that character at the highest levels of his hierarchy.
The second question concerns "parent level keywords." There is an option to turn this on. Does this mean that the hierarchical keyword "People/Relatives/Hayes/John" will also contain the keywords "People", "Relatives", "Hayes" and "John"? Recommended or not recommended?
Yes that will happen. If you use Lightroom Keywords, I see no benefit to also configuring parent labels. That's because of the LIghtroom methodology. Using your example, if you have a four-word hierarchy, the entire hierarchy will be embedded as a keyword and all the words within the hierarchy will also be individually embedded.

This is fundamentally at the root of why Hert has advocated for a long time to use Lightroom Keywords; you get the best of all possible worlds.

weisswelsh
Posts: 34
Joined: 31 Jan 12 8:01

Re: Keywords and such

Post by weisswelsh » 07 Jan 14 4:34

Thanks Mike,

That was very helpful. I'm so sorry for being ignorant about all this. I have just one quick follow-up to clarify something you wrote.
Mike Buckley wrote:Using your example, if you have a four-word hierarchy, the entire hierarchy will be embedded as a keyword and all the words within the hierarchy will also be individually embedded.
Was this an example how Lightroom does it or was this an example how using both methods at the same time would do it?

Bob

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Keywords and such

Post by Mike Buckley » 07 Jan 14 5:23

That's an example using the Lightroom Keywords.

This stuff is not easy to assimilate or remember, so I'll make a suggestion for use in the future that won't require you to remember anything or trust anybody. Simply open a new catalog. Import some images in the new catalog. Change the settings, as an example, to write Lightroom Keywords. Synchronize your files. Examine the data in Image Details. You'll then see what is and is not embedded in the physical image files, especially just in case someone like me gives you incorrect information.

By the way, there is no need to apologize about being ignorant of anything. All of us are ignorant of almost everything in life and knowledgeable of very little in life. So, when I'm ignorant of something, I've got lots and lots of company. 8)

Oh my gosh! I just now noticed that you're also using IDimager Version 5. In the Help screens of that product, conduct a search of "writing." Once the list of topics is returned, select "Keywords and Delimited Keywords." Review the discussion of Adobe Lightroom hierarchical keywords. The fundamentals also apply to Photo Supreme.

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