Workflow status for categories

snowman1
Posts: 317
Joined: 01 Jan 07 3:13
Location: UK

Workflow status for categories

Post by snowman1 » 01 Jan 21 22:26

At the moment I feel PSU does not really facilitate the progression through a workflow. It seems a weak point and I would like to propose an improvement.

Current situation:

There are, as I see it, 3 facilities in PSU to assist workflow.

1. Colour labels. You can assign a colour label (with a user assigned meaning) to each photo as you go through them. Pros: a one-keystroke operation, so very quick, and I find it very useful. I use this to flag which images make the grade (I don't use star ratings), and also to distinguish between images for family and friends, public, or private. Cons: applies to individual images only - of no use to flag how far a batch has progressed through the workflow; mutually exclusive - only one colour can be assigned to an image at any one time.

2. Labels. You can create your own labels representing workflow status and assign these to images as they are progressed. Pros: very flexible; as many as you like; non-exclusive - you can allocate whichever and as many as apply to an image. Cons: rather clumsy and slow; applies to individual images only - of no use to flag how far a batch has progressed through the workflow.

3. Folder states. Pros: applies to a batch; flexible. Cons: mutually exclusive. The big issue for me is that this is by folder. I don't operate by file system folder. One of the points of a DAM is to avoid relying on the filesystem so this facility seems really counter-intuitive for a DAM.

Proposal:

Allow the creation of "workflow labels" that can be assigned to categories/labels (probably using a right-click or a dropdown against the label in the left-hand category pane). These would be non-exclusive - tick as many that apply to the label. Could be used against a label at any level in the hierarchy.

E.g. I might have:
- time corrected
- geotagged
- rated
- labelled
- published

I feel this could be quite a benefit to users - but of course everyone has their own, very different, workflows, so putting it up here for comment.

[edit] One thing I cant quite see is how the status could be quickly and visually flagged to users (given that I think being non-exclusive is important).

While I'm here, a big thanks to Hert for his constructive help to users through 2020 and to all the others on the forum who've shared their hard-won knowledge to help the rest of us! Happy 2021!
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
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Hert
Posts: 6811
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by Hert » 02 Jan 21 0:16

You could:
1. Create a new top level Category named "Workflow"
2. In this category, create labels for - time corrected, geotagged, rated, labelled, published
3. Optionally create a Catalog Label Set with all these labels
4. In the Label Assignment Panel, assign the workflow label from the label set
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bimo
Posts: 125
Joined: 29 Aug 07 22:34
Location: Germany

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by bimo » 02 Jan 21 15:33

Years ago I started with a top level category " Workflow" - just as Hert proposed it. That helped very much in having control over the images being processed.

Meanwhile I prefer to have most workflow components integrated into my label categories; e.g. my top level category "Location created" looks as follows:
Integrated Workflow.jpg
Integrated Workflow.jpg (10.71 KiB) Viewed 2003 times
Each image being newly imported to my catalog is labelled with this label set "Init":
Labelset Init.jpg
Labelset Init.jpg (20.38 KiB) Viewed 2003 times
So,
  • the "? top labelname" label is added to each image directly after import and shows as well the amount of work tbd for the whole label and of course marks each image that hasn't been processed
  • if a label isn't applicable to an image it is labeled "[ohne top labelname]"; that indicates that the image had been processed, but no applicable label exists; the "? top labelname" label is automatically replaced
  • if there is a valid label for an image, apply it and of course the "? top labelname" label is replaced as well.
With this construction you easily get along with each top level category that which might or might not have a single label for this category.

Of course for top level categories with possibly several labels to be applied (e.g. person) you have to delete the "? top labelname" label manually.

As "date" is no "natural" top level category in my catalog I had to keep that in the separate "Workflow" section I started with. There I would as well add a rating addicted label if needed.

HTH
Michael

LifeIsLong
Posts: 84
Joined: 09 Oct 08 2:22

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by LifeIsLong » 02 Jan 21 17:23

I've often wanted a way to mark portfolios, similar to the color scheme... or some other marking system. I often ingest photos and put them into portfolios before tagging/captioning. I would love to be able to mark the portfolios with current state. This is more similar to folders than using tags.

Ralf
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by Ralf » 02 Jan 21 17:58

now I have to ask, maybe it's due to my English again but I understood correctly that

- every new picture gets this "label set" and
- depending on what has been processed, the corresponding "label" is removed from the label set?

So for example.
- the complete label set gets a new imported image
- now I set the "event" to the correct event (e.g. holiday) and
- in the example of @bimo take "? event" away from the picture?

the single ones ? xxxx labels are each created in the associated top level?
Event
- ? Event
- Holiday
- Christmas
Last edited by Ralf on 02 Jan 21 18:01, edited 2 times in total.
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

snowman1
Posts: 317
Joined: 01 Jan 07 3:13
Location: UK

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by snowman1 » 02 Jan 21 18:00

My original post was over-long, apologies. TL;DR:
"have a workflow status for categories like there is for folders. And make them non-mutually exclusive"

@Hert - yes, that's my current process. It's the "option 2" in my original post (unless I'm misunderstanding).

@bimo - I very much like the idea of the labels for "step not done" and "step not applicable".
When you say
the "? top labelname" label is automatically replaced
how does that operate, i.e. how do you make it automatic?
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
--------------------------------------

bimo
Posts: 125
Joined: 29 Aug 07 22:34
Location: Germany

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by bimo » 02 Jan 21 18:21

by Ralf » 02 Jan 21 17:58

- in the example of @bimo take "? event" away from the picture?
Yes; you have to set "Unassign labels with same parent" to "Yes" (red ellipse):
Detailpanel.jpg
Detailpanel.jpg (35.95 KiB) Viewed 1983 times
That must be done for each label belonging to the same top level category (in your example for:
- ? Event
- Holiday
- Christmas)
by Ralf » 02 Jan 21 17:58

the single ones ? xxxx labels are each created in the associated top level?
Yes, they are and are also made members of the label set "Init" Labels (green ellipse).
Michael

Ralf
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by Ralf » 02 Jan 21 18:27

@ Michael, thanks, I'll take a closer look at the days. That would probably improve a lot. Because now and then I forget one or the other
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

Hert
Posts: 6811
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by Hert » 02 Jan 21 23:14

snowman1 wrote:
02 Jan 21 18:00
@Hert - yes, that's my current process. It's the "option 2" in my original post (unless I'm misunderstanding).
That's great. And why do you find it clumsy to use?
This is a user-to-user forum. If you need product support then please send a message

snowman1
Posts: 317
Joined: 01 Jan 07 3:13
Location: UK

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by snowman1 » 02 Jan 21 23:57

Hert wrote:
02 Jan 21 23:14
why do you find it clumsy to use?
Only relatively compared to the other possibilities: simply because the nature of allocating a label means locating it in the list and moving the cursor to click on it. I've only recently started doing workflow this way so I'm still bedding this in TBH. If I process a label's-worth of images at once (eg process all images for a selected event label) then I can select all of them and allocate the appropriate workflow label as a single step for the whole batch so it wouldn't be a problem in the slightest.

I'll combine that with using with the colour labels, as described above, to select which images will get published and with what audience level, as using the colour labels is extremely quick going through image-by-image.

I especially like @bimo's method - I am looking now to build that in to my process - thanks Michael for sharing that excellent approach.
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
--------------------------------------

Mke
Posts: 583
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by Mke » 03 Jan 21 2:12

snowman1 wrote:
01 Jan 21 22:26
3. Folder states. Pros: applies to a batch; flexible. Cons: mutually exclusive. The big issue for me is that this is by folder. I don't operate by file system folder. One of the points of a DAM is to avoid relying on the filesystem so this facility seems really counter-intuitive for a DAM.
If you don't process by folder, then I agree that this doesn't work so well.

In my case, if a folder can't be pushed through all it's stages in one go, I move uncompleted files to a temporary sub-folder flagged with their folder state (usually 'labeling incomplete', as that's that part that takes most time).

Where images are still missing information, then I label them as such under a 'missing information' category (for example 'person to identify' or 'location to identify'). In some cases I also label the image with the name of the person who might supply the information - I have a friend who is good at identifying old vehicles, for example.

Mke
Posts: 583
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by Mke » 03 Jan 21 2:32

LifeIsLong wrote:
02 Jan 21 17:23
I've often wanted a way to mark portfolios, similar to the color scheme... or some other marking system. I often ingest photos and put them into portfolios before tagging/captioning. I would love to be able to mark the portfolios with current state. This is more similar to folders than using tags.
Another interesting approach. Personally I only use portfolios only for grouping images according to their use at the 'output' end - collections of images to be printed / displayed / sold, etc.

Ralf
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by Ralf » 03 Jan 21 10:03

I looked at @ Michael's idea and I'm thrilled how easy it can be sometimes. In everyday life you often become blind and get stuck in your own way without looking left and right.

Only one thing is still unclear to me, in the screenshot (the red ellipse), what does this setting do. I can't tell what it's all about or I understood the idea differently. :roll:
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

bimo
Posts: 125
Joined: 29 Aug 07 22:34
Location: Germany

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by bimo » 03 Jan 21 11:42

Ralf wrote:
03 Jan 21 10:03
Only one thing is still unclear to me, in the screenshot (the red ellipse), what does this setting do. I can't tell what it's all about or I understood the idea differently. :roll:
Let's take a simple real life example from my catalog: the top level category "Color indicator".

This is the complete hierarchy:
Top_level_ColorIndicator.jpg
Top_level_ColorIndicator.jpg (4.98 KiB) Viewed 1416 times
The workflow label is defined as follows:
QuestionMark_ColorIndicator_label.jpg
QuestionMark_ColorIndicator_label.jpg (17.71 KiB) Viewed 1416 times
The most frequently used labels look like this:
Color_label.jpg
Color_label.jpg (18.67 KiB) Viewed 1416 times
black&white_label.jpg
black&white_label.jpg (18.3 KiB) Viewed 1416 times
As you will have noticed, the item "Unassign labels with same parent" is set to "Yes" for each label . The parent in my example is "Color Indicator". Well, the item "Unassign labels with same parent" controls that only 1 label is assigned (either "? ColorIndicator" OR "farbig" OR "schwarzweiß"). Thst means, as soon as you assign a specific label, e.g. "farbig", PSU takes care to unassign "? ColorIndicator" which had been assigned on import via the label set "Init".

I hope it's clear now?
Michael

Ralf
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: Workflow status for categories

Post by Ralf » 03 Jan 21 12:48

WOW, thank you very much for the explanation.
This is awesome and I didn't know it before or what it was used for.
This makes a lot of things easier, really great and thanks for the detailed explanation
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

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