Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

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fbungarz
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Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 21 May 15 1:08

Hi Hert,
not sure if this a bug or perhaps my fault, but I am trying to add some of my DarwinCore XMP custom fields to PSU's Info Panel and it does not seem to work.

In the details panel the Darwin Core field called "Scientific Name" shows up and its content is there:
DetailsPanel_CustomFields.jpg
In the details panel the Darwin Core field called "Scientific Name" shows up and its content is there...
DetailsPanel_CustomFields.jpg (61.11 KiB) Viewed 4333 times
Trying to add the same field to the Info Panel, the field appears to be empty:
InfoPanel_CustomFields.jpg
Trying to add the same field to the Info Panel, the field appears to be empty...
InfoPanel_CustomFields.jpg (79.45 KiB) Viewed 4333 times
Perhaps that is intended and only regular XMP/IPTC can be added to the Info Panel?

Also: Is it not possible to customize what information is show in the Info Panel and how that info is displayed? For example, for obvious reasons (see screenshots) I'd quite like to make the description field larger to show all the text.
Can that panel only be customized adding custom fields?

Thanks for clarifying,
Frank

weidmic
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by weidmic » 21 May 15 1:40

I tried it here and it works...
Have you tried it on a non versioned image?
Maybe you can try it on a different file type too...
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fbungarz
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 21 May 15 12:08

Hi Michael,
in my case it is unfortunately a complete mess. Basically editing and applying metadata no longer works at all since installing the DwC files.
A short summary; I have tried two things:

(1) Adding the DwC profiles to my %AppData/Local/IDimager Systems, Inc/EditorSchemas:
All the data that was already in the files displays correctly, but...
- Changing metadata manually in any one of the fields (custom XMP or regular XMP, IPTC etc.) no longer possible at all. I manually change any entry and click "OK" and the entry defaults back to its previous content.
- I try to use macro commands to migrate data from one field to the next; same difference...
- in no case is the case metadata displayed in the info panel, it is as if the data is not there; content of standard xmp fields is displayed, but cannot be edited.
- - cascading metadata apparently works, i.e., if the main version has different xmp than subversions I can cascade that down, the data seems to be written, but when I then use "save metadata to file" the data reverts back; looking at the XMP sidecars of my NEFs their content remains the same, is essentially not touched at all by PSU, not when I cascade, not when I select "save metadata to file"
=> basically: apart from seeing the data that is already there both panels are essentially useless.

(2) Adding the DWC profiles not to the local settings folder, but the program folder (C:\Program Files\IDimager Products\Photo Supreme x64\Resources\EditorSchemas):
Again metadata re displayed correctly and the Info Panel displays the same data as the Details Panel (hoooray!?), but...
- adding or changing metadata to a field still does not work, macro commands do not work
- cascading appears to work but changes are actually not written to xmp
=> again, the panels are essentially useless; editing or adding metadata not possible; all data always reverts back tow hat is there in the first place.

I will need to try your suggestion to use a non-versioned file and will also need to see if editing metadata of standard fields works if I remove the DwC again.

I plan to work on a video that shows that this is not working and file a bug report in Mantis...

:(

Cheers,
Frank

fbungarz
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 21 May 15 16:47

I have now filed a bug report in Mantis: http://bugs.idimager.com/view.php?id=2859

sanphotgn
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by sanphotgn » 21 May 15 19:54

Hi Frank,

I have been able to make my Custom XMP (from IDimager) work in Photo Supreme. My Custom XMP does not contain as many fields as yours and is probably a lot less complicated. I don't work with Versions (once upon a time I did). I no longer work with DNG files. I work with multiple Catalogs. I use the command line parameters to point Photo Supreme at the Catalog and Data Files (where the EditorSchemas folder and other folders are located). All my data entry is done in the Details Panel. The Info Panel does contain some of my Custom XMP fields (which I set up), but I do not use the fields for data entry. Instead, I use them to export to CSV.

In my EditorSchemas folder I only have my idxmpes and idxmpdef files. I saw on your video you have a bunch of other files. Not sure if that matters or not.

My Write and Read settings are attached.

One thing I have noticed ... If more than one Catalog uses the same Custom XMP, either Photo Supreme or the Catalog "remembers" the previous location of the Custom XMP (and appears to use it). When I do backups - previous Catalog's Custom XMP (that is being used in a current catalog) - requires a backup. I find that odd.

I will rewatch your videos to see if I see anything similar or different to what I am doing.

Kevin
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fbungarz
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 21 May 15 21:00

Dear Kevin,
thanks for taking a look. It is good to know that you managed to get your own custom schema migrated from IDI5. That means, it should work.
What I do not understand is: it works perfectly in IDI5, but PSU behaves completely unpredictable.
I use the command line parameters to point Photo Supreme at the Catalog and Data Files (where the EditorSchemas folder and other folders are located).
Like in IDI I have the PSU database in a separate folder, directly on the C drive. I use the Login Screen to point to the catalog file. I first thought the problem was that the *.idxmpes and *.idxmpdef from the local App folder were not being read correctly and therefore moved them to the Program Folder, but that makes no difference. It is the same mess, no matter where the files are stored, whether in "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\IDimager Systems, Inc\EditorSchemas" or in "C:\Program Files\IDimager Products\Photo Supreme x64\Resources\EditorSchemas".
In my EditorSchemas folder I only have my idxmpes and idxmpdef files. I saw on your video you have a bunch of other files. Not sure if that matters or not.
You are probably looking at my IDI5 EditorSchemas folder, which in addition to the *.idxmpes and *.idxmpdef files also has several *.mpeinst files. The PSU folder ONLY contains *.idxmpes and *.idxmpdef files.
My Write and Read settings are attached.
Thanks, I have experimented with modifying these, but it makes no difference. The only differences: changing the settings messes up my keywords and labels by adding a "miscellaneous" category. The Image Details are unaffected.
What I am doing right now though is re-building the search index. I had run that script before setting up the custom metadata. No idea if that helps. I will also compact the database again...
One thing I have noticed ... If more than one Catalog uses the same Custom XMP, either Photo Supreme or the Catalog "remembers" the previous location of the Custom XMP (and appears to use it). When I do backups - previous Catalog's Custom XMP (that is being used in a current catalog) - requires a backup. I find that odd.
That seems very strange indeed. Perhaps there is some odd caching going on and the catalog somehow remembers that the custom XMP files were not there when I first ran the program. Perhaps I should have installed PSU, added the custom XMP and only then have migrated/converted my IDI5 to the PSU database. Perhaps the database conversion went wrong?

No idea...
I really hope someone can figure out what is wrong, why it is not working.

Thanks,
Frank

fbungarz
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 21 May 15 21:09

Hi Kevin,
after rebuilding the search index has just terminated I inspected the Image Details on the left hand under the Catalog and it turns out PSU can apparently not see all the metadata that should be in the catalog:

Here is what Photo Supreme sees; it suggests that there are only ca. 300 images that have a few Darwin Core XMP fields filled in:
PhotoSupremeMetadata_absent.jpg
PhotoSupremeMetadata_absent.jpg (138.16 KiB) Viewed 4258 times
In IDI5 that same section of the tree is quite different; it shows that several thousands images have fields like "ScientificName" or "Genus" filled in:
IDimagerMetadata_present.jpg
IDimagerMetadata_present.jpg (214.83 KiB) Viewed 4258 times
So, PSU apparently has not only trouble writing or reading that data for individual files, the whole catalog suggests the data is not even there. That may indeed suggest something with the IDI-->PSU catalog conversion went wrong...

While writing this compacting the catalog has finished and the information still does not show...

Odd,
Frank

sanphotgn
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by sanphotgn » 22 May 15 1:58

Hi Frank,
You are probably looking at my IDI5 EditorSchemas folder, which in addition to the *.idxmpes and *.idxmpdef files also has several *.mpeinst files. The PSU folder ONLY contains *.idxmpes and *.idxmpdef files.
OK.

You have probably done this, but I thought I would ask: When you have the Details Panel open, do you see the Menu button? When you click on it do you see your Custom XMP? See screen print below from the Quick Manual. Have you toggled back and forth to see the fields change based on the Editor chosen?

Photo Supreme doesn't have a Watched folders feature. I know some would like it. I tried it in IDImager, but it didn't work all the time, so I got in the habit of manually updating. You have to update manually in Photo Supreme. I use Verify Folder. I really like the list that is provided after a Verify Folder. In your video - at around 5:58 - it appears you cascade data over versions in IDI5 and then go to Photo Supreme. It appears you expect to see the data from the cascade. (I might be misinterpreting what is going on, so I apologize beforehand.) You need to do a manual update.
Perhaps there is some odd caching going on and the catalog somehow remembers that the custom XMP files were not there when I first ran the program.
That is why I mentioned it. For my latest Catalog, I am using the Command Line for the Registry. The following is from Michael's site:

-regfile [registry file] By using this option, PSU will not store any data in the registry; instead the data will be stored at the location you have defined.

So far, the Custom XMP from the previous Catalog hasn't been accessed.

Kevin
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fbungarz
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 22 May 15 15:40

Dear Kevin,
again thanks for your advice.
Yes I know how to use that button to switch between different profiles. In fact, after copying the Darwin Core profile over, I had to use this button to actually then load the profile. The data display correctly in the Info Panel (on the right), but on the left in Tree View [i.e., in 'Catalog - Image Details" (see my previous screenshots)] it appears that the PSU Catalog has not actually stored that information. No idea if the Read/Write issues are actually related with this at all, though.
Michael's site with PSU Tips and Tricks unfortunately no longer seems to be online online. Can you post the instructions what to do here? Thanks!
Also: Maybe there is some way to clear the registry settings if for some reason PSU is cashing erroneous settings there.

I have used the Verify Folder Command on a few folders including the ones with the images that give me that headache. Running 'Verify Folder' makes no difference.
The problems are not so much that I expect the changes in IDI to show up in PSU, the problem is that none of the changes that I make in PSU are actually being executed (or rather what happens is entirely unpredictable, I have not been able to recognize a pattern).
In the video I show, how I can edit and change data in the XMP fields, use macro-commands, cascade the info into subversions - it all works as it should in IDI5. In PSU I try the same, but nothing works as it should.

An example:
I. Preferences - Sync Settings - Automatically write out catalog changes to the image file (enabled)
(1) I select the main version of an image.
(2) I write some dummy text 'mmm' into the field "headline" to replace the original content of the field (Cladonia ceratophylla (Sw.) Spreng.).
(3) I click OK at the bottom of the panel.
(4) The field reverts back to 'Cladonia ceratophylla (Sw.) Spreng.', the text gets not replaced, as it should, by the dummy entry 'mmm'.
(5) I try again to overwrite the data in the field with 'mmm' --- the same...

I. Preferences - Sync Settings - Automatically write out catalog changes to the image file (enabled)
(1) I select the main version of an image.
(2) I write some dummy text 'mmm' into the field "headline" to replace the original content of the field (Cladonia ceratophylla (Sw.) Spreng.).
(3) I click OK at the bottom of the panel.
(4) The field reverts back to 'Cladonia ceratophylla (Sw.) Spreng.', the text gets not replaced, as it should, by the dummy entry 'mmm'.
The only difference: I now have an orange dot indicating that the info has not been written out to the file. OK, that is to be expected, BUT
(5) I try again to overwrite the data in the field with 'mmm' --- and now 'Cladonia ceratophylla (Sw.) Spreng.' is replaced, as it should by 'mmm'
(6) I tell PSU tow rite the data to the field, id does, the orange indicator disappears.
(7) Now I try coping from a different field using the macro command %xmp:dwc:scientificName
(8) The text reverts back to 'mmm'
(9) I try using the macro command again, I receive a "list index (2) out of bound error (0)"
(10) I try cascading the data from the main to the subversions, the subversions are marked 'out-of-sync' by the orange dot, but the data are NOT cascaded into the files, also writing out the data to the files or reading metadata from the files makes no difference. The orange dot disappears, but the data 'mmm' I just entered into the main image, by writing it twice (!), is simply not there in the subversion. The headline field remains empty and oddly enough the content in the title field of the subversions now gets changed, replaced by the file name...

This means:
- I can only edit data if "automatically write out XMP" is disabled and if I enter the data twice
- macro commands don't work
- cascading does not work (instead of cascading down content from other fields the content of the "title" field gets re-written and replaced by the file name even though I never ever touched that field)

I can change all the data in IDI5. If 'Auto Sync' is enabled the data that I changed show up in the DNG and in the main version (the JPG), but not in the NEF. If I try reading the changed data from the XMP sidecar of the NEF into the database, the data that I just wrote to that file with IDI5 are not being read. If I use 'Verify' on the NEF it ´tels me nothing has changed (even tough I just used IDI5 top change the data!). With 'Auto Sync' the thumbs are marked as 'out-of-sync' but reading metadata from the files to the database does not work, verify does not work.

OK - I better stop now. I tink this is something that we both probably won't be able to fix. Hert likely will be at the end of his patience already and say this is an abuse of the user forum again and that bugs must be discussed only in Mantis. So, if I want to get his help, I better shut up.

:wink:

Cheers,
Frank
:(
Frank

sanphotgn
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by sanphotgn » 22 May 15 16:19

Hi Frank,
Michael's site with PSU Tips and Tricks unfortunately no longer seems to be online online.
It is now here: http://www.senoiaphoto.com/psu
Now I try coping from a different field using the macro command %xmp:dwc:scientificName
FYI - I am able to use the macro commands with my Custom XMP.

Did you create a brand new Photo Supreme catalog / database and install the Custom XMP and then import the folders?

Kevin
Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2602 (64 bits) (Windows)

fbungarz
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 22 May 15 18:07

Did you create a brand new Photo Supreme catalog / database and install the Custom XMP and then import the folders?
No, I migrated the IDI5 catalog to PSU3.
Frank

Hert
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by Hert » 22 May 15 20:59

Frank, if using a converted database, did you also run the script afterwards?

Catalog.BuildSearchData;
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

fbungarz
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 22 May 15 21:34

Hi Hert,
yes I did, twice: first before copying the .idxmpes and *.idxmpdef files, but when I noticed that the panels were not working I ran it again.
Thanks so much for looking into this!
Cheers,
Frank

fbungarz
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by fbungarz » 23 May 15 11:01

PS: Perhaps I should try converting the database again?

vlad
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Re: Custom XMP in Info vs Details Panel?

Post by vlad » 23 May 15 12:02

Frank, maybe you could first try to run some quick tests on a brand new (non-converted) catalog, just to see if you could replicate any of the problems you have encountered so far.

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