Top level keywords; hiding

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enonod
Posts: 119
Joined: 03 Oct 09 11:21

Top level keywords; hiding

Post by enonod » 07 Aug 13 18:50

Still trying out Supreme.
I imported IDI 5 catalog to Supreme, seemed OK but could not feel confident that all images have the hierarchical keywords (cat labels) stored within the images. I scrapped that and decided to try importing straight from the images and have Supreme create the catalog labels, which it seems to have done well.
In the first instance above I was able to display the keywords on the thumbnail and it showed exactly as in IDI.
In the second instance, all labels showed but with all the hierarchy above the bottom entry.
I have been unable to locate a setting in Supreme that hides all but the lowest level.
Any help please.

Hert
Posts: 21502
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Top level keywords; hiding

Post by Hert » 08 Aug 13 1:12

You're using delimited keywords in IDI? I can not state it enough....don't use delimited keywords. Search the forums for my motivation.

Anyway, make sure you switch on ICS reading in the preferences before rebuilding a catalog structure from metadata
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enonod
Posts: 119
Joined: 03 Oct 09 11:21

Re: Top level keywords; hiding

Post by enonod » 08 Aug 13 8:42

Thank you for your help and sorry to be a nuisance.
I did read your thoughts on delimited keywords. I did not think I was using them. I am and have obviously been working under severe misunderstanding.
As far as I am aware I was using hierarchical catalog labels and when they are written to XMP/IPTC they appear under IPTC keywords with dot separation.
In XMP it 'appears' that one keyword appears.
I wanted to retain hierarchy and because of the dot notation assumed that I had achieved it.
On reading into Supreme the hierarchy was recreated and so by this time I am doubly sure that all has been well all these years.
It must be that I have had a [some] setting[s] wrong in IDI. I have always had difficulty with them and felt unsure whether they were correct.

I would be eternally grateful if you could suggest what I may have had wrong.

In supreme you do not have delimited keywords, it was deprecated, and I left it off. I assumed that this referred to dot notation and discovered at that point that I was confused as to whether dot notation was hierarchical cat labels or something different because not using delimited still permitted the hierarchy.
What have I totally missed throughout???

enonod
Posts: 119
Joined: 03 Oct 09 11:21

Re: Top level keywords; hiding

Post by enonod » 08 Aug 13 14:39

I believe I must correct my last entry. Obviously I must be using delimited keywords because I have a dot notation.
To quote from the help file...
Both methods have their pros and cons. The first method just lacks information, but adds the most relevant keyword without redundancy. The delimited keyword method, on the other hand, fully reflects the hierarchical structure, but because each hierarchical level is separated by a "delimiter"...
My motivation was that if I have two categories, Family>Jones and another Family>Smith and two photo's one is of Mary Jones and the other of Mary Smith (there are untold words where this will occur in all categories), then if I store Mary to the photographs, outside of IDI it has become ambiguous and there is no way of knowing what the hierarchy is. Thus storing as dotted notation (the same as lightroom but with a dot) seems to be the only way to provide that hierarchy.
The use of only Mary in the photo's will surely also be ambiguous to IDI (upon reading back if needed) because there is nothing in the photo's other than ICS with two hierarchy's which will contain two Mary's but no telling which is which.
If I am to use Supreme then the same situation must surely occur.
I find hierarchy to be essential, simply to distinguish unavoidable duplication [of keywords] .
I quote again...
fully reflects the hierarchical structure
If delimited keywords are required to show hierarchy then if delimited keywords are a bad thin then so must hierarchy that extends beyond the chosen user program, surely?
If my thinking is wrong I desperately need help because I have missed something.

Hert
Posts: 21502
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Top level keywords; hiding

Post by Hert » 08 Aug 13 14:47

Delimited words are old. Today you get hierarchical keywords in the metadata by writing Lightroom keywords. Even if you don't use Lightroom.

You didn't do anything wrong. The downside of delimited keywords is that no other tools will treat them as "hierarchical" which LR keywords are fully interoperable with other tools and toward the future.

For now, read with the ICS switched ON. And once in PSU stop using delimited keywords and make sure LR keyword writing is switched ON (it is on by default)
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enonod
Posts: 119
Joined: 03 Oct 09 11:21

Re: Top level keywords; hiding

Post by enonod » 08 Aug 13 15:17

Thank you, I now feel much happier.

gcoupe
Posts: 603
Joined: 16 Mar 05 19:29
Location: Heelweg, The Netherlands

Re: Top level keywords; hiding

Post by gcoupe » 31 Aug 13 18:06

IDimager wrote:Delimited words are old. Today you get hierarchical keywords in the metadata by writing Lightroom keywords. Even if you don't use Lightroom.

You didn't do anything wrong. The downside of delimited keywords is that no other tools will treat them as "hierarchical" which LR keywords are fully interoperable with other tools and toward the future.
Hert, as I've pointed out before, this is too sweeping a statement. WPG uses delimited keywords (with the "/" character) and does not use LR keywords, and it's precisely because of this why I continue to use this "deprecated" feature. WPG and PSU play together very well. I use PSU, other family members use WPG, and everyone is happy.
Geoff Coupe
--------------
Photo Supreme /Windows 10 Pro 64 bits + Windows Home Server 2011 = DAM

Hert
Posts: 21502
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Top level keywords; hiding

Post by Hert » 31 Aug 13 19:10

Hi Geoff, I am aware that WLPG uses the slash separator and there's also a legacy of IDI users and iMatch users who use delimited keywords. That's why the delimited option won't be removed until the market (MS included) is convinced that they should make a change there. This option is marked deprecated and I hope that that makes people consider twice if they really need that setting.
I don't promote the use of delimited keywords and want to discourage the use as there's a better alternative with LR keywords.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

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