rotated raw files not displayed correctly in photo editors


Hert
Posts: 6980
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: rotated raw files not displayed correctly in photo editors

Post by Hert » 08 Sep 21 8:11

Thank you for sending the files.

My findings:
1. When you create a DNG from the NEF then *always* configure the DNG Converter to include a full size preview.
2. The rotation is done with a PSU Recipe (I forgot about that). Afaik, no other tool reads PSU recipes which is why you don't see your rotation in other tools
3. What you need to do is change the orientation tag in the metadata.

The workflow I suggest:
1. Shoot the NEF
2. Import the NEF and change the orientation tag (why no shoot with the orientation tag so that it's set by the cam, but I expect you have your reasons)
3. After changing the orientation, create the DNG and don't forget to include a full res preview
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fbungarz
Posts: 1706
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: rotated raw files not displayed correctly in photo editors

Post by fbungarz » 09 Sep 21 21:48

Dear Hert,
thanks so much for getting back on this and I apologize for the back and forth. Consuming lots of your time, I know. I should have sent those files earlier. So, thank you for attending to this.

Unfortunately, I am still confused by your response:
You suggest that PhotoSupreme uses internal recipes to rotate and that "no other tool reads" these recipes.
If that's the case, why do JPGs open correctly in external editors after having been rotated inside PSu?
Does this means the recipes change the JPG orientation tag, but not update the tags for any raw file (in my case DNG, or NEF)?

If I manually need to correct the tag, where exactly do I find the tags? In PSu: Under which XMP section are these tags located, so I can manually update them? I looked at the Technical section, but as illustrated in the previous screenshots, the tag for the JPGs under Orientation reads "normal", as does for the NEF, but there is no tag in the DNG.

Sorry, but I am quite confused how to manually update these tags, so that the files will open correctly in an external editor.
Why no shoot with the orientation tag so that it's set by the cam?
For regular images this indeed works best. Unfortunately, it doesn't when working with a macro table, the camera tethered to the computer, mounted above the specimen. The camera simply gets confused by such a setup and as a result orientation tags are typically incorrect.

Sorry to keep bothering you,
Frank

Hert
Posts: 6980
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: rotated raw files not displayed correctly in photo editors

Post by Hert » 09 Sep 21 23:39

fbungarz wrote:
09 Sep 21 21:48
Unfortunately, I am still confused by your response:
You suggest that PhotoSupreme uses internal recipes to rotate and that "no other tool reads" these recipes.
If that's the case, why do JPGs open correctly in external editors after having been rotated inside PSu?
Does this means the recipes change the JPG orientation tag, but not update the tags for any raw file (in my case DNG, or NEF)?
I’m just telling you that a recipe is created when rotating. Open the file in Adjust mode in Psu and you’ll see the recipe marker. Why the jpg opens correctly in Photoshop? I don’t know. Check the orientation tags. That’s where the info is. If your jpg opens fine then the orientation tag is probably fine.
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fbungarz
Posts: 1706
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: rotated raw files not displayed correctly in photo editors

Post by fbungarz » 10 Sep 21 0:00

I’m just telling you that a recipe is created when rotating. Open the file in Adjust mode in Psu and you’ll see the recipe marker. Why the jpg opens correctly in Photoshop? I don’t know.
OK , thanks for clarifying - I see the reason now:
PhotoSupreme rotates raw files and JPGs differently.

Rotating JPGs: no recipe is applied, curiously the orientation tag is not updated by PSu, but in any external editor the file nevertheless is rotated, in Image Editor the file has no recipe marker.
Does that mean PSu physically changes the pixels of the file? Is the image being re-saved? If so, is that lossless???

Rotating DNGs & NEFs: a recipe is created and applied inside PSU, the orientation tag is not being updated, in Image Editor the file shows a recipe marker.

It's quite confusing that PSu rotates JPGs and RAWs differently.
To remedy the situation I tried cascading the rotation tag by cascading the XMP from the JPG to the RAW files. But I guess these technical tags are excluded (for good reason) from being cascaded.

So, manually updating the rotation tags for the RAW files only is the only option.

Hert
Posts: 6980
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: rotated raw files not displayed correctly in photo editors

Post by Hert » 10 Sep 21 8:25

Does that mean PSU physically changes the pixels of the file? Is the image being re-saved? If so, is that lossless???
For a JPG the pixel data is rotated lossless.
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fbungarz
Posts: 1706
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: rotated raw files not displayed correctly in photo editors

Post by fbungarz » 11 Sep 21 0:47

Again thanks so much for clarifying that JPG rotation and RAW rotation work differently:
RAW = PSu only virtually rotates files inside PSU, rotation not picked up by external editors.
JPG = PSu physically rotates the pixels, although lossless, thus updating the orientation also for external editors.
Makes perfect sense now.
Thanks !!!

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