Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

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mballe
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Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by mballe » 17 Feb 21 23:06

With the new v6 setting, that allows you to always store XMP in sidecar, is it possible to prevent PSU from ever modifying the original files, like JPG and DNG?

Username
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by Username » 18 Feb 21 10:55

This would be a very nice option.
Although I'm not sure Hert would like to step away from standards - but it would be very nice! :D
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Hert
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by Hert » 18 Feb 21 10:55

That is indeed the purpose of that setting.
Keep in mind that this setting deviates from the XMP metadata standard. That prescribes that certain formats *must* have embedded metadata. JPG, TIF, and DNG for example. By configuring PSU to always use XMP sidecar files you need to be aware that you will also lower the interoperability with other products for the simple fact that other products don't "require" to read metadata from a sidecar file for the fore mentioned file formats.
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by Username » 18 Feb 21 13:50

Could the option to always write XMP to sidecar be paired with an option to embed XMP information in the file upon export?
That was the locally stored file would not be written into but an exported file would be compliant with XMP metadata standards.
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mballe
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by mballe » 18 Feb 21 18:14

When you import files as read-only, PSU already uses XMP sidecar for all image types.

All I am asking for is an option in PSU that makes PSU pretend all files in the catalog are read-only, and then I can keep my images read/write.

Photoshop already has an option to always use XMP sidecar for all DNG files.

What that would allow me to do is:

Open a badly fisheyed or white balanced image in Photoshop, edit it, storing the edit in XMP sidecar. But on top of that, I could also ask Photoshop to update the preview in the file, which PSU would then use. That would mean I didn't have to create derivatives for edits, but just keep them as non destructive DNG edits.

When sharing, I can have PSU just use the preview, I believe.

It could even be used with edits of JPG files, where you open them in Photoshop Camera Raw, which is an option, and then save them as DNG files with edits in XMP sidecar.

So having a simple "pretend all files are read-only" setting would allow for a really nice DNG workflow that wouldn't require you to create JPG derivatives.

Hert
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by Hert » 18 Feb 21 18:31

As mentioned in the what's new page, such option was introduced with the V6 release.
XMPSidecar.png
XMPSidecar.png (92.04 KiB) Viewed 199 times
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mballe
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by mballe » 18 Feb 21 19:14

When I read about that new option, in the v6 release notes that was briefly "leaked", I was super happy, and it was what I first tried with v6.

Unfortunately, it does not work as I expected. Yes, an XMP sidecar is saved with the file, but the DNG file itself is also modified every time I add a label.

Maybe that is just a bug?

Hert
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by Hert » 18 Feb 21 20:34

mballe wrote:
18 Feb 21 19:14
When I read about that new option, in the v6 release notes that was briefly "leaked"
Hahaha, yeah the release notes were indeed briefly online, a few days before release.
Maybe that is just a bug?
I just checked it here and the XMP is written to a sidecar file, but you are right that the file is still being altered. Not the XMP but the IPTC-IIM is updated in the file. That is now fixed for the next build.
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mballe
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by mballe » 18 Feb 21 20:58

Thank you so much. That will be a big help.

nikcob
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by nikcob » 19 Feb 21 17:32

PSU V5, Windows 10.
Because I still have the problem (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=28277) that temporary XMPfiles are not deleted in the right way, I use the preference writing setting "allow embedded metadata writing for raw files". So PSU doesn't create the XMPfile. When processing the picture in Photoshop the XMPfile is created in the right way.
How does this new setting "always store XMP in sidecar" interferes with "allow embedded metadata writing for raw files". Is there a possibility to avoid creating a XMPfile?

fbungarz
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by fbungarz » 19 Feb 21 18:28

Besides deviating from an industry-wide standard, I foresee another potential "hazard":

I am wondering how enabling this would interfere with my current settings:
I am using triplets of files in one and the same version set: jpg+nef+dng
For simplicity all three files are have the same file names, different extension, e.g.,
PX_1234.jpg + PX_1234.nef + PX_1234.dng
The default setting in V5 is to write XMP sidecars for the NEF, so in reality I end up with four files (the XMP invisible):
PX_1234.jpg + PX_1234.nef + PX_1234.dng + PX_1234.XMP

What would happen now if I enable to always write XMP ???
All three files reside in the exact same folder. If the option is enabled, hw can PSU know which file the XMP actually refers to, the jpg, the nef, the dng - or to all three ????

Perhaps PSU has some sort of workaround by automatically naming the files like this:
PX_1234.jpg + PX_1234.nef + PX_1234.dng + PX_1234_jpg.XMP + PX_1234_nef.XMP + PX_1234_dng.XMP ???

But then, such a naming convention would violate how XMP sidecars are treated! They are supposed to be named exactly in parallel with their parent file.
And storing the different versions in separate sufolders - one would have to completely re-arrange everything! A complete nightmare with thousands of images already residing in an existing folder structure ... Besides, versioning never handled subfolders all that well; on reason I have all my files from the same version set in the same folder...

Thanks for clarifying.

Frank

Sigi
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by Sigi » 19 Feb 21 18:48

"allow embedded metadata writing for raw files" - as far as I understood Hert this does only work for certain, mainly older raw formats but not for all of them. I can not remember which ones anymore.

It would be interesting to learn from Hert if V6 now has the ability to write any metadata into any raw file.

Mke
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by Mke » 20 Feb 21 17:16

Sigi wrote:
19 Feb 21 18:48
It would be interesting to learn from Hert if V6 now has the ability to write any metadata into any raw file.
It would be a plus if it does.

The last post I could find on RAW file support says that PSU can write to NEF, NRW, ORF, CR2, and PEF. It also supports TIFF, JPG & DNG.

Hert
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Re: Added new preference setting to always store XMP in sidecar

Post by Hert » 22 Feb 21 10:55

First of all, when saying "RAW files" here, I mean the camera specific RAW files, not the DNG format.

According to the XMP standard, writing metadata to RAW files is never allowed (hence not recommended to use that option in PSU). RAW files should be considered "proprietary formats". Still you can write to RAW files for some formats, as mentioned by Mke. These are TIFF structured formats which makes it pretty safe to update the RAW file to write embedded metadata. But camera vendors tend to move away from the TIFF typed RAW files. Canon, for instance, uses to use TIFF for their CR2 format, but abandoned that format for the new CR3 format.

DNG, as a RAW format, allows embedded metadata by design.
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