what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Ralf
Posts: 78
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Ralf » 26 Oct 20 15:21

Hello,
maybe someone can help me, I've been working with Tag That Photo (TTP) for a while now and I am enthusiastic about the combination of TTP and PSU. I know some of the people here also use TTP and maybe someone can confirm my problems or have made similar statements.
Or maybe it starts wrong.

I would like the faces recognized and written in TTP to be displayed in PSU with the frame and the name of the person underneath. My understanding is that this is possible if the "correct / appropriate" fields are used. :?:

thats how it works:
1. Pictures that have not yet been written with PSU
2. Process with TTP and face tags writing
3. read into PSU shows this and I can process it

this is not how it works:
1. Images in PSU (metadata written with PSU)
2. Manually created in PSU facial areas (metadata written with PSU)
3. Search and read the same images with TTP for face tags
4. TTP finds the existing tags and adds newly found tags (within TTP)
5. TTP writes tags
6. Read in metadata again. Read in into PSU does not show them

Since my collection is very large and I have been working with PSU for years, I have not met all the faces there manually, which I wanted to catch up with TTP. Unfortunately I run into problems here (see above). My English is translated by Google and doesn't make it any easier.
So that after many days of writing with the very keen support of TTP no result came out what solves this "problem". Another bug was even corrected.

TTP support would like to know which tags are read and which are written. I have also referred them to the forum and hope that they join in or

@Hert can you possibly say something or do you have an e-mail for TTP that they can contact directly?

I hope it's okay that I post this here? :?:

Thank you
Ralf
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

Hert
Posts: 6435
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Hert » 26 Oct 20 15:49

Hi Ralf,

PSU reads 3 possible sources in the metadata to create the areas.

1. IPTC Regions. This is the most modern way to write regions in metadata. IPTC Regions are just added to the IPTC XMP standard a few months ago (Iptc4xmpExt:ImageRegion)
2. If no IPTC regions exist then PSU will check if there are MWG regions (mwg-rs:Regions)
3. If no IPTC regions nor MWG regions exist, then PSU check for Microsoft regions (MP:RegionInfo)

TPP can contact support@idimager.com
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Ralf
Posts: 78
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Ralf » 26 Oct 20 16:05

Wow, great, fast as always.
Thank you very much and I just passed it on with a link to the forum and the email address. TTP will also log in here.
I am so happy...
Ralf
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

LifeIsLong
Posts: 74
Joined: 09 Oct 08 2:22

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by LifeIsLong » 28 Oct 20 14:34

Ralf, thanks for working with TTP and Hert to bring these two awesome programs into (hopefully) better alignment! I had noticed a couple metadata quirks and so have not been using TTP, while looking at it longingly!

I fully support any amount of awareness/integration between these two programs... it would be most helpful!

Ralf
Posts: 78
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Ralf » 28 Oct 20 16:40

LifeIsLong,
gladly, I also think that the two programs together are the absolute highlight. I also looked at TTP for a long time but never really accessed it. Until now and then I ran into the "error".
But both (PSU, TTP) are doing an excellent job and have taken on the matter with mutual support.

I'm waiting for TTP, they want to take a look at the "new" tags and let me know.
I'll get in touch here ...
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

Hert
Posts: 6435
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Hert » 31 Oct 20 10:06

First the explanation:

I've been contacted by someone from TTP. We found the cause for this.
I've reported here that PSU only imports the highest level of regions that it finds in the metadata. In other words:: if PSU finds IPTC Regions then it won't import MWG or MS regions.
The TTP person made clear that TTP currently writes MWG and MS regions but not IPTC regions. When you write metadata for a file with PSU then your metadata gets IPTC regions as well. If you then use TTP afterwards it re-writes MWG and MS only, but not the existing IPTC regions. PSU then finds IPTC regions and assumes that if that exists that that is leading and hence will not read the legacy MWG or MS regions.
This explains why you could read TTP regions only after deleting the areas first using that mentioned script. Then no IPTC regions exist anymore and PSU will read the first found highest level regions which is then MWG.

Now the solution:

MWG and MS are dead metadata schemas. The IPTC organization introduced their new IPTC regions almost a year ago. As all metadata supporters will probably know, the IPTC organization is the most solid metadata standard provider, and have been for years. The best solution for every actively supported/developed software (like PSU and TTP) is to implement support for the new industry standard IPTC Regions. That is the best way of storing regions in metadata going forward.
But I realize that there are many tools out there that aren't able to adopt new metadata standards as quick as Photo Supreme can. There will be products that only write legacy types of regions in metadata for many months, if not years to come. And so I figured that the most helpful solution would be that PSU reads all three region levels, regardless their legacy. PSU will then consolidate all levels of regions that it finds and merge them together.

PSU has been updated to 3237 yesterday where this is implemented. Please let me know if that helps to improve interoperability between PSU and TTP.
Thank you
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Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Ralf
Posts: 78
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Ralf » 31 Oct 20 14:25

Hello Hert,
a very big THANK YOU that you have taken on the matter and implemented the functions. Above all that it then remains in the standard.
That would minimize the workflow so drastically and you could concentrate more on the other things.
I will go to testing this evening and do the same tests that I did with TTP and give feedback here.
I can't get my grin out of my face right now.

greeting
Ralf
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

Ralf
Posts: 78
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Ralf » 31 Oct 20 18:35

Hello,
I have now tested the following, here is the result in short form, not every step from my notes is included.

Observation, why can't i say:
- if the PSU has written data, the newly found or newly generated data by TTP are no longer written to the data.
- PSU definitely shows the areas from TTP

Test 1:
- PSU: untreated images imported from a SCAN into PSU
- PSU: Faces marked, saved
- TTP: read in, everything recognized
- TTP: added a new face
- PSU: Verify file - no changes found
- PSU: Read in metadata - no changes found

Test 2:
- TTP: untreated images read from a SCAN in TTP
- TTP: found faces saved
- PSU:
- Bar at the bottom right -> catalog label all available twice
- Face / area is displayed
- Face Elvis Presley inflicted
- TTP: read, all recognized including Elvis Presley's face
- TTP: new face added Marylin Monroe
- PSU: verify file - no changes found
- PSU: Read in metadata - no changes found

I hope that I could help a little with that, It's going in the right direction
Thank You
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

Hert
Posts: 6435
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Hert » 31 Oct 20 19:20

Ralf wrote:
31 Oct 20 18:35
Test 1:
- PSU: untreated images imported from a SCAN into PSU
- PSU: Faces marked, saved
- TTP: read in, everything recognized
- TTP: added a new face
Can you send me a copy of the file at this point (after writing an additional face with TTP)? Thank you
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Ralf
Posts: 78
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Ralf » 01 Nov 20 12:59

Gladly, including screenshots of what I did to get a feel for it, even if you don't use TTP.

I'll try to attach it here, otherwise it will be sent by email (ZIP).

I'm just afraid that you won't see anything because the problem is that TTP no longer writes anything as soon as it was described by PSU.

00 - JPG before TTP.jpg
06 - JPG after TTP write.jpg
Attachments
05 add a new Face.zip
(1016.43 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

Hert
Posts: 6435
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Hert » 02 Nov 20 13:34

Hi Ralf, thank you for the zip file. Can you repeat this test with build 3240, now on the website. Thank you
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Ralf
Posts: 78
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Ralf » 02 Nov 20 14:29

Hi Hert,
it looks better, only the markings on the face (Elvis Presley) are missing.
no catalog label double

- PSU: import
- PSU: Face Cornelia, save
- TTP: read in, everything recognized
- TTP: added a new face "Elvis Presley"
- PSU: read in (verify Folder), File belongs recognized
catalog label recognized but not Area

attached the picture
Attachments
05-Test-3240.zip
(422.49 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

Hert
Posts: 6435
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Hert » 02 Nov 20 14:54

If I read metadata for the file you provided in the zip then the Elvis area is displayed. Am I missing something?

elvis.png
elvis.png (3.12 MiB) Viewed 778 times
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Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Ralf
Posts: 78
Joined: 19 Jan 19 14:37

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Ralf » 02 Nov 20 15:48

I have attached my screenshots including settings, I don't see the mark.
neither after executing the menu item "Read metadata" nor via "Verify folder"
Has that to do with the settings?
Attachments
Screenshots-3240.zip
(68.5 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
Ralf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby photographer with many pictures (> 100000) of the family over generations.
(Excuse my english)

Hert
Posts: 6435
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: what writes or reads PSU for the facial areas - I'm slowly despairing

Post by Hert » 02 Nov 20 19:30

Hi Ralf, my import wax with 3242, but that fixes a duplication possibility on reading MS-regions. You could try it also in that build.
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Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

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