Version detection

Post Reply
germie
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Apr 15 22:43

Version detection

Post by germie » 27 Sep 20 22:10

Hi folks,

Typically my image folders contain the raw files and de corresponding jpg files after editing.
Usually I do version detection to join the raw-jpg files as a set.
Both JPG and RAW files have the same keywords.
So far when I do a version detection on a folder and click on a set it gives me the keywords for raw + jpg once (i.e. Zoo and Zebra).
With the latest version (3143) when I do a version detection on a folder and click on a set it gives me the keywords for raw + jpg twice (i.e. Zoo and Zebra and Zoo and Zebra).
Version sets that were versioned with older versions of PS still only show the keywords once (i.e. Zoo and Zebra).
Can anyone conirm this? What is the intended behaviour?

Kind regards from Holland
Germ Wind

Mke
Posts: 515
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Version detection

Post by Mke » 27 Sep 20 23:40

Yes, I've just been versioning and get the same with newly versioned images too - but, it seems, only if more than one person in an image has been tagged with a face area.

Looks like a bug.

germie
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Apr 15 22:43

Re: Version detection

Post by germie » 28 Sep 20 9:51

Hi Mke,

Thanks for your response. I do not use face detection al all (as far as I know of; you never know what goes on under the hood :-))

I investigated the matter a bit further:
when writing metadata to the raw file PSu writes the last item of the keyword tree as well as the hierachical version. For instance: Wolf, DierenPark Amersfoort, Onderwerp | Fauna | Zoogdieren | Wolf, Plaats | Amersfoort | DierenPark Amersfoort

After processing the keywords in the JPG version of the raw file are written the same way. On import of the JPG's (with Verify Folder Quick) the keywords without the hierarchical structure are wrtitten to the Miscellanious keyword, and the hierarchical ones to the original keyword structure The keywords are duplicated in this process. So far emptying the Miscellanious keyword groep solves the problem.

My settings for synchronize setting / write setting are: checked: "only update out-of-sync images" , "write catalog data to IDImager ICS scheme", "Store key words in afphabetical sort order", "Store synonyms as keywords too" and "write hierarchical keywords"

My settings for synchronize setting / read setting are: checked: "read hierarchical keywords (if available)" and "read delimited keywords"


Kind regards from Holland
Germ Wind

Mke
Posts: 515
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Version detection

Post by Mke » 28 Sep 20 21:05

Hi Germ,

Thanks to your post, and some 'spare' time I've now been looking deeper too, and have found more-or-less the same thing.

I agree that face detection isn't the problem - however the problem does only seem to affect images with more than one person label (it my particular set of images, in all images showing more than one person have face tags). Images with only 1 person shown, or no people, aren't affected by the bug, at least not in my images so far.

Examining the problem files with ExifToolGui shows that, in XMP:
  • in non-affected files, HierarchicalSubject contains only hierarchical keywords.
  • in affected files, HierarchicalSubject contains hierarchical keywords, plus delimited versions of the same keywords under the miscellaneous category (in the format miscellaneous|keyword1*miscellaneous|keyword2|miscellaneous|keyword3)
And deleting the miscellaneous keywords from the tree is a workaround.

Write settings attached. Version 3143.
WriteSettings_Keywords.png
WriteSettings_Keywords.png (30.24 KiB) Viewed 420 times

germie
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Apr 15 22:43

Re: Version detection

Post by germie » 28 Sep 20 22:53

Hi Mke,

Thanks for the reply.

I've got an update today to version 3157 and I did a small test.

1. I made a new folder and copied a raw file into it.
2. I assigned keywords to the file and write them back to the raw files xmp.
3. I opened the raw file in C1, did some editing and exported a JPG.
4. I copied the JPG to the folder containing the raw file and did a Verify Folder Quick to add the JPG to the database. Both files are versioned together automatically.
5. The earlier mentioned doubling of keywords (and the adding of the keywords in Miscellanious) did NOT happen
6. One of the keywords had a synonym. The only item added to Miscellanious this time was this sysonym.

A quick question: are you on this latest version yet?
BTW none of the images affected in my database had any people in them. Perhaps writing the XMP:IPTC info has anything to do with it?

Kind regards
Germ Wind

Mke
Posts: 515
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Version detection

Post by Mke » 15 Oct 20 23:07

I've just processed another 4 files, creating JPGs (using DxO) from CR2 files that had been previously labeled in PSU (version 3176).

After importing them into PSU using Verify Folder, one of the batch displayed the duplicate labels issue. That file had 2 people labels, while the others had only 1.

I tried again with a different file, different labels, but still including people labels and this time there was no problem - so it isn't related directly to people labels.

However if I destroy the problem version set and miscellaneous labels, re-export a new JPG and import it to PSU, then the problem recurs. I'll forward the problem files to Hert so he may try to identify the cause.

fbungarz
Posts: 1583
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Version detection

Post by fbungarz » 16 Oct 20 19:11

Are you sure this is really the exact same label written to the files twice? That would be bad.
I suspect what instead might be going on is labels being duplicated under the "Miscellaneous" category...

I have had this for years and we even had some discussions about this online. For some reason PSu insists on re-creating/duplicating labels somewhat randomly under the "Miscellaneous". Hert insists it can only happen with a specific sync configuration in Preferences, but I never managed to figure out when it happens. And I have tried all kinds of settings and this random creation "Miscellaneous duplicate labels" still happens...

As a result, I have gotten into the habit of ever so often to just delete all labels in "Miscellaneous". Since I am not using any other tools for labeling outside PSu I am just deleting duplicates and once things are synced again everything is fine...

Hert
Posts: 6356
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Version detection

Post by Hert » 16 Oct 20 19:55

With Mike's sample files I was finally able to reproduce this (would have never figured it out without these files).
In the latest build, 3197, this should be resolved.
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Mke
Posts: 515
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Version detection

Post by Mke » 17 Oct 20 0:13

Thanks for the quick response Hert; I can confirm that build 3197 fixes the problems with my files mentioned above :)

vkfoto
Posts: 120
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

Re: Version detection

Post by vkfoto » 17 Oct 20 14:45

Could we have a real world examples of the various import export setting that affect keywords / labels?
In preferences / synchronize setting / keyword processing, there are three choices in both read and write.
  • Do not modify keywords
    Merge Catalog labels with keywords
    Replace keywords with catalog lables.
What happens to the keywords in a file in each case?
  • If a keyword is added by an external program, what happens on import?
    If a keyword is removed by an external program, what happens on import?

Hert
Posts: 6356
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Version detection

Post by Hert » 17 Oct 20 15:43

The Tips system describes screen widgets. Press Ctrl-Shift-T and hover the mouse over the field you’d like to learn more about.

I recommend to not tweak the sync settings unless you’re sure that you’d like to change the default configuration. The default settings should cover everything you need. If you changed keywords outside of PSU then read metadata to the catalog and these new keywords will appear as labels.
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Post Reply