confusing time discrepancy

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roddyt
Posts: 27
Joined: 28 Jun 15 17:59

confusing time discrepancy

Post by roddyt » 07 Jun 20 1:42

My grandkids got an inexpensive camera which is not much more than a toy, but still takes reasonably nice photos. Being the nice granddad I am, I offered to process the photos in PSu. My process is to rename photos on import with a batch using the Rename Files function with the pattern yyyy-mm-dd_hhnnss.

After import I noticed all the files were 4 hours off, so I set off to figure out why. Using exiftool, I saw only three date/time entries (the little camera created very little exif data). All were accurate with File Modification Date/Time being the one set to the actual time the picture was taken. In this case, it was (time only) 15:33:02-4:00. The -4 being accurate for my time zone in eastern US.

The result of the file rename was to set the hour to 19 instead of 15. My first thought was that it was related to the time zone delta of -4, and that maybe the lack of exif data (I see from photos from "real" cameras that there are Offset Time exif entries) was to blame. If that was all, I could deal with it. Unfortunately, I tried applying Rename Files a second time. This time it set the hour to 14, which is one hour before the actual time the picture was taken.

And this is where I am totally confused. Here are some steps I took to try to work this out:

Instead of running the import, I put the original file in a folder by itself and added it to the catalog by selecting Scan for Missing Files on the folder. Without doing anything else, I looked at the entries in the Details pane and I saw that the Description Data had the hour set to 14, which is one hour before the actual time. Looking further, I saw that photoshop:DateCreated under XMP Advanced was also set to this time.

Where did PSu get this information? As I said before, exiftool listed times accurately with the hour set to 15, and there is no other entry that would explain why this time is an hour earlier. I can only think that there is more data somewhere that exiftool does not show.

But that's not the end of it.

I executed Rename Files on the file, and now the file name is renamed with the date, accurate except for the hour, which is 19, as I mentioned earlier. Without doing anything else, I ran exiftool on it again. Doing nothing but renaming the file, PSu added three times as many exif entries as were there before. Among them are Modify Date, Time Created, Date/Time Created, and Date/Time Original. All of which are set to the hour of 14.

This is not so terribly important. The photos are of a quality you might expect a 5 year old to take. But I have spent much time in the past trying to understand the workings of the many date/time entries. So this is just an effort to try to resolve another confusion.

Hert
Posts: 6424
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by Hert » 07 Jun 20 8:22

Would it be possible to share a sample file? Either attach it here (public) or send it to support@idimager.com (private)
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roddyt
Posts: 27
Joined: 28 Jun 15 17:59

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by roddyt » 07 Jun 20 15:50

I'm at my wits end. Earlier I took a picture of a clock to send you, but when I loaded it in PSu, the time shown in Description Date (and photoshop:DateCreated) was accurate. I was mystified as nothing had changed. I did some experimenting, and at one point I changed the name of the file in the Finder before adding it to PSu, and that did it: the Description Date was one hour earlier again. I also duplicated a file (before adding it) and both the original and the duplicate were one hour earlier.

OK, so that seemed to be a key as I had renamed some of the files I was working with yesterday. At this point I had to go do some other things. I came back a little later to tell you what I found and send the file. To my surprise, the photos I left in PSu which were showing an early time were now accurate. I did nothing when I came back except check the photos to see the time change.

I started over with a new photo, but now the time is correct no matter what I do. This is very frustrating. I am sending a photo anyway in case you see something in it that I don't.

Other than this mystery, maybe you can explain what is happening with the other issue I mentioned. When I rename the file in PSu with the pattern yyyy-mm-dd_hhnnss, the time is increased by 4 hours. When I do it a second time, it deducts 4 hours to set it to the correct time. This is not a important as doing a rename twice is not a big deal, it is just curious.
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PHO00001.JPG
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Hert
Posts: 6424
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by Hert » 07 Jun 20 16:02

You can check in Photo Supreme with right click -> Run Script from Repository -> Metadata -> Full Exif Dump

That will show you all metadata that can be found in the file.
I've checked your file and there's no metadata in it. Could be that you didn't upload the original file or that the camera just doesn't store anything. If there's no metadata then PSU uses the file stamp as the date.
Description Date (and photoshop:DateCreated
You're checking the wrong fields. The dates as the "Photo Date" that matters most are in Technical.

FYI; The Photo Date is determined as follows:

first XMP's exif:DateTimeOriginal
if not exists XMP's exif:DateTimeDigitized
If not exists XMP's tiff:DateTime
if not exists EXIF's date time original
if not exists EXIF's date time digitized
if not exists EXIF's base date (0x132)
if not exists File Last Modification Date
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roddyt
Posts: 27
Joined: 28 Jun 15 17:59

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by roddyt » 07 Jun 20 22:36

I do not have an entry called Run Script from Repository when I right-click a thumb. Is that a Windows-only thing, or am I in the wrong place? Be that as it may, I went to the repository, got the script, and ran it from the Scripter. Like you, nothing was returned. But using exiftool, this is what I get:

[16:34 ~]27 % exiftool /Users/roddy/Pictures/camera\ process/PHO00001.JPG
ExifTool Version Number : 11.99
File Name : PHO00001.JPG
Directory : /Users/roddy/Pictures/camera process
File Size : 1447 kB
File Modification Date/Time : 2020:06:07 10:03:40-04:00
File Access Date/Time : 2020:06:07 16:35:15-04:00
File Inode Change Date/Time : 2020:06:07 10:11:37-04:00
File Permissions : rwxrwxrwx
File Type : JPEG
File Type Extension : jpg
MIME Type : image/jpeg
Image Width : 3264
Image Height : 2448
Encoding Process : Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample : 8
Color Components : 3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling : YCbCr4:2:0 (2 2)
Comment : GPEncoder
Image Size : 3264x2448
Megapixels : 8.0

As for reporting the Description Date field, it was not so much checking the wrong field, but that it was the only date available in the Details pane to report on.

Hert
Posts: 6424
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by Hert » 08 Jun 20 8:16

roddyt wrote:
07 Jun 20 22:36
I do not have an entry called Run Script from Repository when I right-click a thumb. Is that a Windows-only thing, or am I in the wrong place?
There are no "windows only" or "macOS only" features. PSU is fully cross platform. Are you running the latest version? That is currently build 5.4.1.2962. If not, then download the version from the website and install that over your existing copy.

This is the direct link:
https://cp.idimager.com/downloadproduct ... SingleUser
Be that as it may, I went to the repository, got the script, and ran it from the Scripter. Like you, nothing was returned. But using exiftool, this is what I get:
ExifTool also reports nothing. The list items are file properties, not Exif or XMP details. The dates you see are *file* dates, meaning dates that the file system keeps for every file. The date that the file is created on disk, the date that the file was last modified on disk, and the date that the file was last changed on disk. File dates are not suitable for management purposes. The file dates can change often. For instance, when a file is copied then the file dates can change. After all, the *file* was changed. But a changed file, doesn't mean that the photo date changes. Exif dates (what any decent camera or phone records) is what represents the relevant dates for the photo.

See the sequence I mentioned in my earlier post. As your file doesn't include any metadata dates, PSU end at the last step, meaning it takes the file stamp as the metadata date.

Since files from this camera doesn't record metadata, I recommend that you use the re-date feature in PSU. That allows you to set the metadata dates manually. Once done, these dates will always travel with your file. Right click on a thumb and select Operations -> Redate Files.
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roddyt
Posts: 27
Joined: 28 Jun 15 17:59

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by roddyt » 08 Jun 20 11:59

OK, thanks for your help. This is an inexpensive camera, so no surprise there is no exif data.

Just to go back to the Run Script from Repository issue. I attached a screen shot of what I see when I right-click a thumb. It is not there, nor in any of the sub-menus. I am running the latest version. Am I in the wrong place, or is something else going on?
Attachments
2020-06-08_06-45-49.jpg
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Hert
Posts: 6424
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by Hert » 08 Jun 20 13:16

Do you have the repository option switched on?
Repo.png
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roddyt
Posts: 27
Joined: 28 Jun 15 17:59

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by roddyt » 08 Jun 20 14:51

Yes, I do. I even tried toggling it. Didn't make a difference.

Hert
Posts: 6424
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by Hert » 08 Jun 20 15:37

Thank you. Can you try it now (restart PSU first)
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roddyt
Posts: 27
Joined: 28 Jun 15 17:59

Re: confusing time discrepancy

Post by roddyt » 08 Jun 20 15:55

Well that's interesting. I don't know what you did, but there it is. And it is quite a nice feature that I didn't know existed as it was never there for me, or at least I don't recall ever seeing it. Thank you.

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