displaying version sets

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vkfoto
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

displaying version sets

Post by vkfoto » 30 Oct 16 1:19

In the folder view, I see a pair of thumbnails the I think should be in a version set. The left one is the CR2 file, the right one is a set that includes JPG and TIF files. It also contains a CR2.
single and versions.JPG
single and versions.JPG (28.11 KiB) Viewed 8295 times
Here you see the CR2 displayed in both
single and versions 2.JPG
single and versions 2.JPG (28.43 KiB) Viewed 8295 times
These are the version settings I have
versioning.JPG
versioning.JPG (26.41 KiB) Viewed 8295 times
In a YouTube video, it showed how one image can be slid over another to add it to a version set. When I tried to slide the right one over the left one, it refused.

Did I make a mistake when the files were ingested?
What would be the best (easiest) way to remove the CR2 only thumb?

fbungarz
Posts: 1556
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: displaying version sets

Post by fbungarz » 30 Oct 16 10:07

You have to drag & drop the image that you want to add as a subversion.
This means click on the left, drag it on the right one which has already many versions indicated by the small tabs, then drop it. That should work.
You cannot add a whole version set to an unversioned image, only the other way round: add the unversioned file to the set of versioned files...

jstartin
Posts: 405
Joined: 23 Aug 06 13:47
Location: UK

Re: displaying version sets

Post by jstartin » 30 Oct 16 14:52

Frank's answer is perfectly correct in terms of "how". However, it might be worth thinking about why you see what you see.

In your example 2009-12-15-0001.cr2 and 2009-12-15-0001.jpg are present in the same folder. 2009-12-15-0001.jpg is part of a version set also containing another copy of 2009-12-15-0001.cr2 from elsewhere in your file system. Other files from elsewhere are also part of the version set.

Probably, 2009-12-15-0001.cr2 shows up in the duplicated file list.

Rather than simplifying the display by adding a second copy of 2009-12-15-0001.cr2 to the version set you might want to consider doing so by deleting one of the redundant pair.

Notes: Version sets can span folders but do not have to. In folder view every file in the folder is shown, even if it is versioned with another file in the same folder. If you have a version set made up of files from the same folder then, in folder view, you will see as many "copies" of the version set as there are files. Any file shown without version "tabs" is not part of any version set at all.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

vkfoto
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

Re: displaying version sets

Post by vkfoto » 30 Oct 16 20:44

jstartin wrote:...
Probably, 2009-12-15-0001.cr2 shows up in the duplicated file list.
I looked, there is only one copy of each file.
...If you have a version set made up of files from the same folder then, in folder view, you will see as many "copies" of the version set as there are files. ... .
There are three nested folders
2009-12-15 / converted / proofs

in 2009-12-15: there is a CR2 and a JPG - the JPG is from the camera
in 2009-12-15 / converted: there is a TIF
in 2009-12-15 / converted / proof: there is a JPG ( reduced size)

Each of the two subfolders shows a complete version set.
So because the top level has two files, is that why there are two version sets showing? Is this by design? Why?

jstartin
Posts: 405
Joined: 23 Aug 06 13:47
Location: UK

Re: displaying version sets

Post by jstartin » 30 Oct 16 23:41

For your questions I can do no better than refer to an old post of Hert's
http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php ... et#p107439

From your description, folder view of 2009-12-15 should show two thumbs. Each of them should have the side tabs that represent versioning. One should, by default, be open at the cr2 tab and the other at the OOC jpeg tab.

That is not what is shown in your screen shots where the cr2 appears not to be part of a version set (no tabs down the side). As the lower screen shot shows the right hand thumb opened to a cr2, if this is not a copy located somewhere else then it is hard to account for what is shown which is inconsistent.

If you click on each tab of the right hand thumb in turn and then type SHIFT+F(show in windows explorer) do you end up in the folders you expect each time? How about the "lone" cr2 thumb.

If you drag the "lone" cr2 thumb onto the version thumb is it added to give a set of five versions, or not?
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

vkfoto
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

Re: displaying version sets

Post by vkfoto » 31 Oct 16 0:36

After compacting the database, it now shows the two complete thumbs. One for each file in the top level, the CR2 and the OOC JPG
Each of them also show the two subfolder files.
2009-12-15.JPG
2009-12-15.JPG (26.47 KiB) Viewed 8224 times
So to avoid having two sets of thumbs, I should move the OOC JPG files to their own sub folder?

vkfoto
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

Re: displaying version sets

Post by vkfoto » 31 Oct 16 1:32

I tried this strategy in another small folder. Created a new OOC JPG subfolder and moved all those OOC JPG files there.
Now I have:

top folder with CR2 files
/subfolder with TIF files created by the raw processor (this will go as I now use a non-destructive RAW processor that removes the need to create intermediate TIF files except for special cases that need extra work.
//sub-subfolder with JPG proofs
/subfolder with OOC JPG

Now I don't have multiple thumbs.

I wonder if I still need version sets since each folder contains only one kind of file so I won't be overwhelmed by seeing the same image multiple times.
Or collapse all the folders into one and use version sets to keep things under control. Either way will entail a lot of work.Going forward just a change in workflow but going back to align the previous images, hmmm.

jstartin
Posts: 405
Joined: 23 Aug 06 13:47
Location: UK

Re: displaying version sets

Post by jstartin » 31 Oct 16 11:27

I'm glad PSu is now working for you as designed, even if not exactly how you want.

An advantage of version sets is that labels apply to the whole set and only have to be assigned once (although some users see that as a disadvantage :wink:). Also, searches return the entire set.

You could try using folder view in combination with a filter to avoid seeing multiple thumbs.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

Mke
Posts: 470
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: displaying version sets

Post by Mke » 31 Oct 16 14:27

vkfoto wrote:I wonder if I still need version sets since each folder contains only one kind of file so I won't be overwhelmed by seeing the same image multiple times.
Or collapse all the folders into one and use version sets to keep things under control.
FWIW I use subfolders in a similar way (but with JPEG proofs as the primary folder) and find it a helpful way of organising files and as a quick way of viewing only files of a particular type. I also find version sets useful to keep the metadata (particularly catalog labels) consistent between versions.

fbungarz
Posts: 1556
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: displaying version sets

Post by fbungarz » 31 Oct 16 14:41

I also find version sets useful to keep the metadata ... consistent between versions.
Me too. Unfortunately it can be quite cumbersome, however, to make sure that all metadata apply to all versions of a particular set. Unlike labels, the metadata entered in XMP fields can be different for each different version. While in theory this offers more flexibility, I personally find it rather unfortunate, because it means I regularly need to cascade the metadata from the main to all its subversions. I wish there was at least a shortcut to quickly cascade metadata (see http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=2959) or even better a global setting that enables auto-cascading of metadata (http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=2633).
If you also think it is useful to keep metadata the same across different versions, perhaps then you would want to vote in support of these two Mantis tickets...
Cheers,
Frank

vkfoto
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

Re: displaying version sets

Post by vkfoto » 05 Nov 16 1:14

What determines which of several versioned images is displayed. Sometimes it is #1 and in other cases it is the last one of the set.
which version to display.JPG
which version to display.JPG (35.03 KiB) Viewed 8073 times
which version to display1.JPG
which version to display1.JPG (36.36 KiB) Viewed 8073 times
These are my versioning settings
versioning2.JPG
versioning2.JPG (30.02 KiB) Viewed 8073 times
When there is more than one JPG version, what determines which one is assigned to which number?
At one time I was storing different JPG versions, small, medium, large, etc., in different subfolders so I was not confused. Now that I'm using labels and other DAM techniques I won't need so many folders but will have to start using a different naming convention. Or not. Will have to see what feels easier.

vkfoto
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

Re: displaying version sets

Post by vkfoto » 05 Nov 16 16:19

To answer one of my questions, I discovered that in Folders view, the total number of images in the light grey oval of parent folder of a set of folders is the total of all folders and subfolders in that set. When I select the parent folder, the main window only displays those images in the parent folder. If on the other hand I click on the oval with the total, all images are displayed as individual thumbs, even those that are part of version sets.

I reread the QuickStart guide "Folder and File Management" but didn't find any mention of this behavior. Perhaps in one of the other guides?

vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: displaying version sets

Post by vlad » 06 Nov 16 23:17

vkfoto wrote:What determines which of several versioned images is displayed.
In most views, only the main version is displayed. In the Folders view (which you probably use), you will see all versions that physically reside in the browsed folder.
Sometimes it is #1 and in other cases it is the last one of the set.
The different "cases" that you're talking about involve the browsing of different folders, right? If so, then my previous answer should clear up the confusion.
These are my versioning settings
The Folders view shows versions strictly based on their physical location, irrespective of assigned placeholders.
When there is more than one JPG version, what determines which one is assigned to which number?
I don't think you can control which JPG is associated to which version number. In theory, you should be able to rely on placeholders (rather than numbers), but you can't control placeholder assignment (for multiple JPG's) either, assuming you run the version detection during importing. For version detection after importing, you could specify custom filemasks in the versioning settings.
To answer one of my questions, I discovered that in Folders view, the total number of images in the light grey oval of parent folder of a set of folders is the total of all folders and subfolders in that set. When I select the parent folder, the main window only displays those images in the parent folder. If on the other hand I click on the oval with the total, all images are displayed as individual thumbs, even those that are part of version sets.
That's standard behaviour in all views: clicking on the counter oval triggers the hierarchical setting. (Highly useful.) The Folders view is particular only in the fact that multiple version thumbs could be displayed in the same collection. (That could happen even if you don't click the oval - but perhaps not in your case, assuming your versions are always spread across different folders.)

Hope that helps,
Vlad

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