Catalogue hierarchy

fbungarz
Posts: 1628
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by fbungarz » 23 Jun 16 8:50

PSuExit?
I vote for staying with PSu...

snowman1
Posts: 305
Joined: 01 Jan 07 3:13
Location: UK

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by snowman1 » 23 Jun 16 22:49

LOL me too - vote remain!!! :-)
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
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vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by vlad » 24 Jun 16 12:18

Frank, Snowman:

I'm with you - let's just hope we're not in minority :wink:

SteveF48
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 Jun 11 12:16

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by SteveF48 » 26 Jun 16 13:43

Until someone write the perfect software for Photographers there will always be a requirement to use the best tools for the job. If that software screws my metadata I have to decide whether the inconvenience that causes overrides the usefulness of the software.
I think that I have explained what I'm trying to do, at present PS is messing with my metadata in such a way that I can't use it. The main problem is the multiplication of Categories/Keywords. I do not want to have to keep merging keywords, because (at present) each scan for new data seems to add an existing keyword again in a different part of my hierarchy. I think that part of the problem may be previous DAMs breaking the rules, but for all its faults Lightroom handled the metadata correctly. None of my 105K photos are currently without keywords

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by Mike Buckley » 26 Jun 16 15:36

SteveF48 wrote:PS is messing with my metadata in such a way that I can't use it.
I already offered to provide the kind of help that can be given only once you post screenshots of your Synchronize Read and Write settings but you seem unwilling to post them. I'm confident others would also provide help if you would post the screenshots. Until you do so, I'm extremely skeptical based on my years of experience using the product that it is messing with your metadata. Instead, my guess is that you have one or more settings configured in such a way that is causing the problems you are experiencing.

As mentioned in my earlier post, it would serve you well to start a new thread with posted screenshots.

Hert
Posts: 6685
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by Hert » 26 Jun 16 16:57

In the default configuration of PSU it's hard to let it mess with your metadata. Often the reason is messy pre-existing metadata; half baked XMP is a major reason for confusion; especially since PSU fully drives on this higher level metadata and many other tools mess the XMP up which will only become apparant after starting to use PSU. To rule that out, start with a set of new/fresh images and use PSU only. Then follow the metadata closely with a tool like Exif tool. Then draw conclusion.
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

sanphotgn
Posts: 310
Joined: 26 Aug 07 18:06

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by sanphotgn » 26 Jun 16 19:04

SteveF48,

While I totally agree with "never use two applications for metadata management", my current workflow includes using Photo Supreme and Lightroom for metadata management. Once Photo Supreme is set up to your specific situation (verified with testing before any large importing), Photo Supreme and Lightroom work reasonably well with one another. One has to be diligent, because it is easy to overwrite. There are a few other things to keep track of, but, in my experience, it works.

Mike suggested to post another thread with screenshots. Having the right settings is crucial. Several here are extremely knowledgeable regarding the settings and what they do. Examples of current keywords and their hierarchies might be helpful. Examples of the hierarchies from the metadata might be helpful.

Kevin
Photo Supreme 4.3.4.2141 (64 bits) (Windows)

SteveF48
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 Jun 11 12:16

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by SteveF48 » 27 Jun 16 17:49

Mike Buckley wrote: I recommend that you start a new thread so people can help you sort out your unusual issues. Regarding the issue pertaining to the multiple copies of the keywords, I also recommend that you post screenshots of your Synchronize Read and Write settings.
I thought that this thread did just what you suggested.
My Sync settings are:
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Thanks for your help
Steve

SteveF48
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 Jun 11 12:16

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by SteveF48 » 27 Jun 16 18:07

Mke wrote:
SteveF48 wrote:3) The suggestion to copy categories to the correct parent sounds good, but a) One can't copy a category when the destination parent already contains a category of that name
Not quite sure what you mean, but Photo Supreme does have a function to merge categories (whether or not they are duplicates)...
SteveF48 wrote:b) Categories aren't sorted within their parent, so it's difficult to tell whether (a) applies when a category may appear 3 times under different parents.
I regret that I'm definitely not following that one...

See also: http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?t=23211
These are the top level categories
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SteveF48
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 Jun 11 12:16

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by SteveF48 » 27 Jun 16 18:10

vlad wrote:Frank, Snowman:

I'm with you - let's just hope we're not in minority :wink:
In Britain we are :(

SteveF48
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 Jun 11 12:16

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by SteveF48 » 27 Jun 16 18:14

Mike Buckley wrote: I already offered to provide the kind of help that can be given only once you post screenshots of your Synchronize Read and Write settings but you seem unwilling to post them. I'm confident others would also provide help if you would post the screenshots. Until you do so, I'm extremely skeptical based on my years of experience using the product that it is messing with your metadata. Instead, my guess is that you have one or more settings configured in such a way that is causing the problems you are experiencing.

As mentioned in my earlier post, it would serve you well to start a new thread with posted screenshots.
I'm grateful for everyone's comments and offers of assistance. I'm not reluctant to post screenshots/further data. I've been busy and overwhelmed by all the posts.

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by Mike Buckley » 27 Jun 16 19:31

Steve,

I see several problems with your settings, some of which you have changed from the default settings. I'm confident the current settings would cause at least some of the issues you have described. I'm busy right now and can't take the time to deal with your details until later. There are lots of people following the forum who can help you as well as I can, so they may get to you sooner. I'm writing this message right now just to let you know that I'm confident we can solve your problems. Another way of putting it is that Supreme isn't "messing with your metadata"; instead, it's only doing what you have configured it to do.

sanphotgn
Posts: 310
Joined: 26 Aug 07 18:06

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by sanphotgn » 28 Jun 16 1:03

Steve,

I would recommend starting over. Brand new database / catalog. Copy a good representation of your files, but not a lot and place them somewhere else. Use these for practice.

I realize there is never enough time, but I don't regret the time I took to practice the process. Back in the day when I was learning, I did my usual workflow and the new one with Photo Supreme concurrently.

This is what I do and it works. Others will have different workflows and it will work for them. Granted, if other DAMs have touched the metadata you may have to do a few other things or change the settings.

(My photos are not in one giant database. Instead, each project has its own corresponding Photo Supreme and Lightroom database / catalog. Thus, I have gotten somewhat good at setting each up. You can use Photo Supreme's command line start up parameters to point to different databases / catalogs and folder structures.)

1. I set up Photo Supreme. I enter the Preferences (see screen shots). I manually create the parent / top level Categories.

2. I set up Lightroom. I take the defaults in Lightroom (see screen shot). I manually create the same parent / top level Categories that exist in Photo Supreme. (You won't need to do this, because they already exist if I am understanding what you are trying to do.)

3. It is critical both applications contain the same parent / top level Categories / Keywords before doing anything. Going forward ... if a parent / top level Category / Keyword is entered in one, you must immediately enter it in the other.

Test. See if it works for you. If it doesn't, post the results with the settings.

Kevin
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Photo Supreme 4.3.4.2141 (64 bits) (Windows)

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by Mike Buckley » 28 Jun 16 1:29

Now that Kevin has done such a nice job of getting back to Steve...

I wholeheartedly second Kevin's recommendation to start over and to do so in the initial stage using only a portion of the images.

Notice Kevin's recommendation to read and write only the hierarchical keywords, not the delimited keywords. I also concur with that. The reasoning is explained in the Quick Start -- Cataloging file on page 21.

Most important, even if you disagree with the reasoning to use hierarchical keywords instead of delimited keywords, there is no reason I can think of to use both. There is a good possibility that the duplication of catalog labels Steve mentioned is caused by using both.

Even if you do decide to read and write delimited keywords, it's absolutely imperative that you use the same delimiter when reading and writing. Steve is currently using different delimiters. That could also cause duplication of catalog labels.

Similarly, Kevin also recommends disabling writing of parent labels as keywords. Enabling that setting when writing hierarchical keywords is yet another duplication that might have cause that issue that Steve experienced.

I strongly disagree with Kevin on one very important point: He recommends disabling the writing to the IDimager ICS scheme. There is absolutely no harm that can come from enabling that setting. When that setting is enabled and when everything that could possibly go wrong does go wrong with backups of your catalog, you can always automatically recreate your Supreme catalog including all of the proprietary information such as versioning, bookmarks, relationship labels and a host of other details that otherwise cannot be automatically recreated.

Though I, like Kevin, enable automatically writing out catalog changes to the image files, I do appreciate that some people understandably prefer to disable that setting at least in the beginning stages while they are trying to get an understanding of how Supreme works. Once you're confident that you understand how the software works in the context of your workflow, you might then be comfortable enabling that setting.

Hope this helps!
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 28 Jun 16 2:09, edited 2 times in total.

PhilBurton
Posts: 307
Joined: 12 Sep 10 18:47
Location: CA, USA

Re: Catalogue hierarchy

Post by PhilBurton » 28 Jun 16 2:07

Mike Buckley wrote:
Though I, like Kevin, enable automatically writing out catalog changes to the image files, I do appreciate that some people understandably prefer to disable that setting at least in the beginning stages while they are trying to get an understanding of how Supreme works. Once you're confident that you understand how the software works in the context of your workflow, you might then be comfortable enabling that setting.

Hope this helps!
Mike,

I agree with you about writing out catalog change data. But what is the counter argument? (just for completeness sake).

Phil
Photo Supreme user
Home built i7 3930, 32 GB RAM, Win 10 Pro 64, latest version of Photo Supreme 3, Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS 6 (perpetual licenses)

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