Unexpected Labels

Post Reply
frith
Posts: 105
Joined: 16 Dec 06 1:25

Unexpected Labels

Post by frith » 21 Apr 16 6:47

I have been adding Catalog Labels to all my images (about 19,000 images in about 200 folders). It is all working very well with one exception that may be some type of user error. For example, I will select say 3 images and assign say two labels to each. Then I select say 2 other images and assign say three labels to them. Sometimes when I go back to the first three images there are the two labels assigned plus a label (or several labels) that I did not assign. And they are not the ones I assigned to the second group (e.g. it is not an issue of not deselecting the first three before selecting the second set of images). Does PS somehow assign labels other than through the Assign panel. There does not appear to be any logic to the "extra" labels that show up. Maybe it is an error on my part - but it happens so often I wondered if anyone else had the same issue - and what may be the problem.

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Unexpected Labels

Post by Mike Buckley » 21 Apr 16 7:30

You used to use IDimager, the predecessor of Supreme. It might be helpful for you to be aware that Supreme works fundamentally the same as IDimager insofar as all of your issues are concerned. I have never experienced the issue you described using IDimager or Supreme.
frith wrote:Does PS somehow assign labels other than through the Assign panel.
That can be done by typing in the Keywords text field of the Details panel. However, doing so is ill-advised and it would be impossible for you to do so without knowing you were doing it. (Same as in IDimager.)

Another method of assigning catalog labels happens when the image has keywords already embedded in the image file that are then written into the catalog. (Same as in IDimager.)

Yet another method is that synonyms of catalog labels can be written to the image file if the pertinent Preferences setting is enabled. If you then write the keywords into the catalog, those synonyms will be added to the tree of catalog labels and automatically assigned to the images. Off the top of my head, this is the most likely culprit of the cause of your problems, especially if a particular combination of Read and Write settings is enabled. (Again, same as in IDimager.)

If that information doesn't help you solve your problem, I strongly recommend that you post screenshots of your Read and Write Synchronize settings. My hunch is that something is going on that is caused by a particular setting or combination of those settings.

frith
Posts: 105
Joined: 16 Dec 06 1:25

Re: Unexpected Labels

Post by frith » 21 Apr 16 20:12

[attachment=0]Write Settings 2016-04-21 at 12.05.51 PM.png[/attachment][attachment=1]Read Settings 2016-04-21 at 12.06.04 PM.png[/attachment]Yet another method is that synonyms of catalog labels can be written to the image file if the pertinent Preferences setting is enabled. If you then write the keywords into the catalog, those synonyms will be added to the tree of catalog labels and automatically assigned to the images. Off the top of my head, this is the most likely culprit of the cause of your problems, especially if a particular combination of Read and Write settings is enabled. (Again, same as in IDimager.)

Yes I think that may be the issue. I had keyword many images prior to starting to use PS and may have made errors at that point (e.g. not "cleared" all selected images before moving on to keywording other images.

I have attached the screen shots of the Read and Write Preference settings. Let me know if that confirms your thoughts.
Attachments
Write Settings
Write Settings
Write Settings 2016-04-21 at 12.05.51 PM.png (323.26 KiB) Viewed 2800 times
Read Settings
Read Settings
Read Settings 2016-04-21 at 12.06.04 PM.png (299.8 KiB) Viewed 2800 times

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Unexpected Labels

Post by Mike Buckley » 21 Apr 16 20:57

Your settings clearly indicate that the issue doesn't have anything to do with synonyms unless you had enabled that setting when you used IDimager and had never synched the image files with the catalog until using Supreme. That's because the setting that writes them to the image files is not enabled. On the other hand, if you had enabled the synonyms settings and had never synched the images, you're correct that that might the source of your problem now that you are using Auto Synching.

I think your issue is also probably related to the Read setting that reads delimited keywords. If you had delimited keywords embedded in the image files, they would have automatically been added to your catalog when the files were synched. (You have auto synching enabled.) Those newly added catalog labels would have also been automatically assigned to those images.

Considering that your settings are configured to read and write hierarchical keywords, there is no benefit I know of to reading (or writing) delimited keywords. So, I recommend disabling the setting that reads them. I think that will make your problem disappear but keep an eye on it and get back to us if needed.

To change the subject: I strongly recommend that you disable reading the IDimager ICS scheme and enable writing it. Writing it makes it possible to recreate your catalog if everything that could go wrong does go wrong. Reading it is necessary only when you do need to recreate your catalog. Reading it any other time only slows down the speed of the program.

To ensure that the ICS scheme is written to all files in a reasonable manner once you enable that setting, I recommend that you first temporarily disabling the auto synching. Then select all images one large batch at a time (not all at once considering that you have 19,000 images) and manually sync them by using Ctrl+S. Once you have completed that manual process, it's fine to enable the auto synching again.

One minor point: Considering that you are writing hierarchical keywords, I don't see any benefit to also writing parent level labels as keywords. Doing so results in all the parent level keywords being written to two fields. Doing so is not a problem except that doing so might slow down the program. More important, doing so also doesn't add any value. So I recommend that you disable that setting before following my instructions about implementing the change having to do with the ICS scheme explained above.

Hopefully others can shed light on your situation by adding helpful comments if for no other reason than to confirm that I'm on the right track toward solving your problem.
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 21 Apr 16 21:22, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Unexpected Labels

Post by Mike Buckley » 21 Apr 16 21:16

When I read my previous post, it occurred to me that there are so many issues that make it so complex that it becomes a bit difficult to comprehend. So, to keep things simple, I recommend the following steps to solve the problem you brought to light in your thread and to make other improvements you hadn't noticed need improving.

1. Temporarily disable auto synching.
2. Disable Reading the ICS Scheme until the time (that hopefully never happens) that you need to recreate your catalog.
3. Permanently enable Writing the ICS Scheme.
4. Permanently disable Reading delimited keywords.
5. Permanently disable Writing parent level labels.
6. Select about one-fourth of your images and manually synch using Ctrl+S.
7. Repeat Step 6 until all images are in synch with your catalog.
8. As a measure of safety: In Catalog mode, select By Catalog State. Then display and select all images (if any) that are still out of synch. Manually synch them again using Ctrl+S.
9. Enable auto synching (because you had temporarily disabled it in Step 1).

frith
Posts: 105
Joined: 16 Dec 06 1:25

Re: Unexpected Labels

Post by frith » 21 Apr 16 22:13

Mike - Thanks. I responded before too quickly and agree it is likely not a synonyms issue and more likely it is keywords already embedded in the image.

I am following each of your steps -many thanks, very helpful - and will report back.

Post Reply