Logic in prefering data entry via labels over keywords

vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: Logic in prefering data entry via labels over keywords

Post by vlad » 17 Mar 16 14:24

Mike, I don't know how many users apply or applied detail profiles during import. But, if the nefarious effects of the bug manifest themselves only upon close metadata inspection, I wonder if some people may simply be unaware (rather than unaffected) by this bug. In general, I'm most wary of "hidden" bugs, which don't have obvious effects right away.

(Anyway, that's just a digression from Stephen's main topic, related to geo locations and labels. But I'll keep in mind your warning, Mike.)

snowman1
Posts: 305
Joined: 01 Jan 07 3:13
Location: UK

Re: Logic in prefering data entry via labels over keywords

Post by snowman1 » 17 Mar 16 16:49

Hert is surely already aware of my repeated descriptions of the problem. If he wants to attend to it, there should be no reason for anyone to take the time to list it and follow it up in Mantis. That last point is a matter of customer service that apparently he and I will always disagree about.
Hi Mike, it is not reasonable to expect Hert to trawl the forum and raise Mantis tickets himself. Issues will only get fixed from tickets, that is the process and that is what Mantis is there for. But this is for another topic!
There are far more important issues that should be fixed or improved first, especially in light of its apparent minimal impact on the community.
That's fair enough. In terms of how issue reporting and fixing works, that is what the priority and severity fields in Mantis are for, to govern the support team's priorities, but I understand your reasons in not reporting it! :)

Fascinating thread, thanks to all for the great contributions, and apologies for going off topic here but did want to respond to Mike's point there to help clarify the support process as it normally works.
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
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Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Logic in prefering data entry via labels over keywords

Post by Mike Buckley » 17 Mar 16 18:40

VERY OFF-TOPIC
snowman1 wrote:Hi Mike, it is not reasonable to expect Hert to trawl the forum and raise Mantis tickets himself.
I have every reason to believe he reads every post in the forum, though I have no proof of that. I have no expectations of him, reasonable or otherwise.
Issues will only get fixed from [Mantis] tickets
Not true. Issues regularly get resolved without tickets ever being written. This happens when Hert reads a post and then immediately reports that the issue will be fixed upon release of the next version.

fbungarz
Posts: 1628
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Logic in prefering data entry via labels over keywords

Post by fbungarz » 17 Mar 16 20:46

OK - Mike, you started this (also quite a bit off-topic):
8)
...that is what the priority and severity fields in Mantis are for...
:lol:
Really - so far I have seen only "minor" as a category that is being used there :wink:
But honestly: I understand that Hert is inundated with requests and all sorts of true and false bug reports. I myself do have the bad habit of reporting bugs that later turn out to only reflect my own ignorance... :?

@Mike: though I do understand your rationale of not reporting bugs that you consider "irrelevant" or "low priority" I am not sure I agree with that strategy. There is at least one bug that I wish you had actually reported years ago, when you discovered it - namely the fact that versions does not work with batches if files are saved to the same folder as the original. To my workflow this is a real nuisance, still unresolved in version 3, while you already discovered it in version 2.
I think there are certainly "high priorities" and less urgent matters. If a bug severely corrupts metadata, prevents a major part of the application from working (e.g. portfolio causes the program to freeze) - then that is certainly less important than the color profile of an image not being read correctly. But personally I am happy that CMYK images are rendered much more accurately now...

So, yes, it makes sense not to overwhelm Hert, give him time to fix the really urgent matters. Besides - there is lots of tiny bugs in Mantis already unresolved and adding more will likely not be very productive.
BUT - how do you know, what should or should not be a priority? This is now the second bug, where you thought nobody was affected and it turns out some people are. Might it not be a better strategy to report all bugs and let Hert decide, what he considers urgent or perhaps an easy, quick fix... !?

The problem with not reporting bugs in my opinion is:
(1) Hert might not notice which things are not working as expected... (though, being overwhelmed as it is, that may still happen :wink: )
(2) Users have to trawl through this forums figuring out why things don't work as expected only to find the issue has not been reported!
(3) If users find workarounds they might stick around.
Else... perhaps they move elsewhere.

Here is my take on this:
Personally I do not file bugs because I want to bother or even annoy Hert. I do not file them either, because I am just frustrated (though often I am). I file bugs because I hope the program will get improved. I file them because I believe me and other users will benefit from this. Assessing who will benefit most from getting a particular bug fixed is beyond me... (And of course the bugs I notice are the ones that I notice because of my workflow; how Hert decides what is a priority is quite another matter).

In any case - I am not so certain that not filing bugs only because I personally consider them minor is the best strategy. I might have no idea how many people might benefit from a bug getting fixed.

And about this being essentially the eight's version of this program: I disagree!
Yes, PSu benefits enormously from years of development that went into IDI. But when PSu came on the market it was a radical and drastic shift. Hert even insisted it was a completely new program. Though I tend to disagree with that particular statement, PSu is in many ways quite similar to its predecessor, I do agree it is a complete overhaul! Quite a few things got dropped entirely. Most were redundant fluff, but some I still sorely miss! That does not mean I am not impressed how much better PSu now works. Its interface has become sleek and intuitive, it is much more responsive, crashes less often - overall a smoother user experience.

Still, PSu is not version eight of IDI !!!
Overall it has become quite a different beast! :mrgreen:
On the surface it seems surprisingly similar, but under the hood that similarity is deceiving. Having made the move only recently I still catch myself expecting things to work in a certain way. I am frustrated when they don't, but usually realize a novel approach of doing things :idea: , often times actually understanding the advantage of doing things differently (though sometimes not seeing the point, "missing the boat" and of course occasionally also wishing some things were still working "the old way").

Sorry if I strayed so far from the original topic, I couldn't resist...
:wink:

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Logic in prefering data entry via labels over keywords

Post by Mike Buckley » 17 Mar 16 21:14

fbungarz wrote:OK - Mike, you started this
Actually, Vlad started it by genuinely making a perfectly reasonable request of me. I felt he and others who read his request deserved an equally genuine and reasonable response. Similarly, I believe you and other readers of your comment deserve a genuine, reasonable response. However, note my caveat at the end of this post regarding the future.
Might it not be a better strategy to report all bugs and let Hert decide
When I come upon a bug or at least suspect a bug worth dealing with, I first ask about it here. As I mentioned above, I believe Hert reads all of the posts. If he chooses not to personally add such items to Mantis or chooses not to delegate someone on IDimager's staff to do that, that's his choice. My personal belief about customer service is that any company that requires customers to make a suggestion using a particular forum in a particular way in order for the company to act upon the suggestion is quite deficient in customer service; having spent a career in sales, that concept goes completely against the grain of my life experience.

Indeed, I know of no other company that has such a policy, not that they don't exist. That includes the companies that produce the hardware and software products I use. When it comes to attracting or keeping me as a customer, that policy is a competitive disadvantage.

This will be my last post on the subject out of respect for the purpose of not only this thread but also the entire forum. The forum rules require that we discuss how to use the product, which does not include discussing how to or whether to communicate with the company that produces the product. I intend to abide by those rules with very rare exceptions such as I have already made in this thread. Indeed, I apologize for having made them.

fbungarz
Posts: 1628
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Logic in prefering data entry via labels over keywords

Post by fbungarz » 17 Mar 16 21:38

This will be my last post on the subject out of respect for the purpose of not only this thread but also the entire forum.
Dear Mike - now I do have to apologize! It certainly did NOT want you to discourage participating in the forum and had I anticipated this reaction, I would certainly have shut up. I must say I am surprised by your strong reaction, because I do really value your contributions and you have helped me "out of a bind" a lot!
And I actually agree with you that Hert is very much interested in good customer service, trying to attend to issues quickly. Like you say: any good company does that. But, as you have pointed out too, there is also the matter of resources. And even with the best resources available the cumulative aspects of many, many users using this software is an additional pool of resources that is valuable. Even the best, most versatile programmer will not and can not notice nor attend to every bug out there.
Again: I really apologize if anything I said offended you. That was not my intention. I simply suggested that filing bugs that I personally may consider minor may be considered a priority by others and that I am not filing these bugs to annoy Hert, but so they do not go unnoticed...

Sorry, I really did not anticipate this...
Frank

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Logic in prefering data entry via labels over keywords

Post by Mike Buckley » 17 Mar 16 21:51

Frank,

I either didn't convey my intentions well or you misunderstood them (or both :mrgreen: ). I look forward to continue posting in the forum and this thread. It's the discussion of the off-topic subject that I will no longer participate in.

Stephen
Posts: 663
Joined: 01 Oct 14 10:15

Re: STOP

Post by Stephen » 17 Mar 16 22:11

:evil: Whoever you are, please STOP hijacking topics to discuss your issues. This dissuades participation and wastes time! :evil:
Never say never change, but using Mac since 2005. Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2605. I endorse the interoperability of files between applications and systems.

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