Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

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Gunk
Posts: 3
Joined: 12 Nov 14 19:43

Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by Gunk » 12 Nov 14 19:58

Giving Photo Supreme a spin. I've been looking for something like this for a long time and was resigning myself to the fact that I might have to write something - what a breath of fresh air this is!

So I've imported a hundred images and been playing around. I have the beginnings of a list of Categories and Category Labels and was wondering if anyone has come across a program to help you manage this? I see that I can import and export a list of labels, but every search I've done has only turned up programs to manage tags/keywords/labels/etc for files/music/etc, nothing to manage the dictionary of labels itself. Ideally it would let you easily create, edit, and modify the labels, and even add more info like a description to them, but also allow you to export a list that could be imported into PS.

Is anybody aware of a Mac or web app for this? How do you manage your labels - strictly in PS, or with outside assistance?

DirkS
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Location: Essex, UK

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by DirkS » 13 Nov 14 11:50

I edit all my catalog inside PSU itself.
In the distant past I imported a 'vocabulary' from controlledvocabulary.com, which I have adapted and extended ever since.

Gr.
Dirk.
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vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by vlad » 13 Nov 14 12:53

Hello Gunk and welcome to the forum!
I've been looking for something like this for a long time and was resigning myself to the fact that I might have to write something
Hah... I'm wondering if that's how Hert started writing the very first IdImager product, many years ago...
Is anybody aware of a Mac or web app for this? How do you manage your labels - strictly in PS, or with outside assistance?
I don't know your motivation for the question, but I can't see any reason (*) to edit the keyword/label structure outside PSU, given the top-notch facilities in PSU. Also, I don't know how simple or complex are your DAM needs, but are you aware that PSU allows you to define much more than a simple hierarchical structure: label (keyword) synonyms, non-hierarchical relationships between labels, metadata mappings associated to labels, private labels (that don't get transalated to metadata tags) etc.?

(*) Well, I guess one possible reason is that editing a keyword text file could be faster than building up the label structure in PSU. But that obviously would apply to any specialized program for keyword editing too.

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by Mike Buckley » 13 Nov 14 13:59

DirkS wrote:I edit all my catalog inside PSU itself.
In the distant past I imported a 'vocabulary' from controlledvocabulary.com, which I have adapted and extended ever since.
The same for me. Beginning with an extensive hierarchy (it has over 11,000 entries and almost all of them seem to include synonyms) eliminates the headache of having to create your own hierarchy. That decision was probably the single most important cataloging decision that I made after committing to IDimager products.

Mke
Posts: 505
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by Mke » 13 Nov 14 16:04

Gunk wrote:Ideally it would let you easily create, edit, and modify the labels, and even add more info like a description to them, but also allow you to export a list that could be imported into PS.
...How do you manage your labels - strictly in PS, or with outside assistance?
I have no problem doing it within PS - it can do all the things you mention (including, since V3, the ability to edit batches).

Gunk
Posts: 3
Joined: 12 Nov 14 19:43

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by Gunk » 13 Nov 14 21:55

I don't have any other program I would be using these labels in, so doing it in PS isn't a problem in itself, I just need to take the time to validate and normalize it externally first, then either do an initial import or add them manually. My thought was with an external program that might manage them, that I could search it for labels and descriptions to determine if one was suitable or if I needed to create a new one. My thinking is I can export them and have a searchable text file, but it appears the descriptions aren't exported with them. Is there a way to do that?

Synonyms seem awesome, what is an example of how you would use the Relationship option?

A huge feature here that I didn't find in other packages was the ability to easily search for more than one label at a time. I see we can AND and OR them - are we able to combine those in a more complex search, and/or (haha) use a negation operator?

Mke
Posts: 505
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by Mke » 14 Nov 14 0:56

Gunk wrote:My thinking is I can export them and have a searchable text file, but it appears the descriptions aren't exported with them. Is there a way to do that?
Yes, but not directly. If you know what you're doing - and I guess you do since you were thinking of writing some software yourself - you could extract a fuller listing direct from the database. Take a look at table idProp. See this thread for more on the topic: http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=23592
Gunk wrote:what is an example of how you would use the Relationship option?
The obvious example is to add a relationship between two people - husband/wife; father/daughter etc. The related people then show up under each other in the hierarchy. The dialog box could do with some enhancement though.
Gunk wrote:A huge feature here that I didn't find in other packages was the ability to easily search for more than one label at a time. I see we can AND and OR them - are we able to combine those in a more complex search, and/or (haha) use a negation operator?
Yes, you can. The Dynamic Search box has a hamburger menu in the title bar that gives you that option.

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by Mike Buckley » 14 Nov 14 3:50

Other examples of Relationship Catalog Labels:

Jim lives in New York; New York is the residence of Jim
Maria is the oldest sister of Sarah; Sarah is the youngest sister of Maria
Sue is two years younger than Jane; Jane is two years older than Sue
Frank's favorite dessert is chocolate ice cream; chocolate ice cream is Frank's favorite dessert

vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by vlad » 14 Nov 14 10:28

Gunk wrote:Synonyms seem awesome, what is an example of how you would use the Relationship option?
As the previous examples suggest, you could use relationships as a way to document and add semantical structure over the label hierarchy. (If I'm not mistaken, the relationship info is also written to the final metadata, assuming you leave the option on writing the IDimager ICS Scheme enabled.) In addition, relationships introduce navigation links (related labels appear under the current label in the catalog explorer) and they could be used as criteria inside search bar queries (see bellow).

Besides relationships, I should mention that you can also group and store labels into label sets.
A huge feature here that I didn't find in other packages was the ability to easily search for more than one label at a time. I see we can AND and OR them - are we able to combine those in a more complex search, and/or (haha) use a negation operator?
Just to add to the previous response: the search and filtering features in PSU are top-notch. Basically, you can query the database for any combination of logical operators and criteria, including but not limited to labels - and you can store favorite queries for reuse. There is even a mechanism (the search bar) that allows you to search based on partial text and to restrict the search to different domains (labels, filenames, some XMP property etc). For an overview and more details, you could consult the quick search manual: http://manualsu.idimager.com/version3/Q ... rching.pdf

Hope that helps,
Vlad

Gunk
Posts: 3
Joined: 12 Nov 14 19:43

Re: Establishing and maintaining a category label hierarchy

Post by Gunk » 15 Nov 14 0:15

Mke wrote: Yes, but not directly. If you know what you're doing - and I guess you do since you were thinking of writing some software yourself - you could extract a fuller listing direct from the database. Take a look at table idProp. See this thread for more on the topic: http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=23592
Duh, I'd even already read that thread, but the synapses weren't firing correctly.

Thanks everybody!

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