Nikon Vertical Images

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 17 Nov 14 3:42

I've concluded that this whole situation is caused by a bug in Photo Supreme and that it doesn't have anything to do with Nikon Capture NX2. Using the exact same vertically oriented RAW file with IDimager 5, I can use the Batch panel to create the versioned JPG in the same folder as the RAW file. (That can't be done using Supreme V2 or V3. ) The newly created file is displayed in the proper orientation both in IDimager and Windows and the Date Time Original data is correctly written to the JPEG. (That combination also can't be done using Supreme V3 and I suspect Supreme V2. EDIT: As explained in a later post, it can be done if the command, "Convert Metadata to XMP," is first applied to the NEFs.)

If someone who enjoys logging bugs in Mantis wants to log those two bugs (EDIT: It's now only the one bug.), that would be great.
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 17 Nov 14 6:15, edited 4 times in total.

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 17 Nov 14 3:52

vlad wrote:I don't understand exactly the issue, but doesn't "Convert Metadata to XMP" help in this case?
Apologies, Vlad. I overlooked your question from several days ago and didn't see it until just now. Where does one find that command? EDIT: I found it. See my next post -- great news!
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 17 Nov 14 6:17, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 17 Nov 14 6:04

Vlad's suggestion seems to have solved the most important issues. I'll explain:

1. Run "Convert Metadata to XMP" on all of the NEFs.
2. Run the batch file that creates the JPEG from the NEF and enable the setting, "Write metadata (if available)"

The vertically oriented images are displayed correctly both in Supreme and Windows. The Date Time Original of the NEF is written to the JPEG.

Way to go, Vlad! Thank you!

That leaves only the bug that requires saving the newly created JPEG to be versioned to a different folder. Otherwise, it won't be versioned.

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 17 Nov 14 9:11

This is really disappointing. Now that I am applying the various methods tested here to about 125 images instead of testing a group of 5 to 10, I'm unable to find a method that is reasonably reliable when it comes to displaying the vertically oriented images properly in both Supreme and Windows. I never had this issue using IDimager, so I may give up on Supreme and return to IDimager V5. I assumed by waiting until the third version of Supreme had been released that at least all the major stuff would work as reliably as in IDimager but that's not my experience with the display of the vertical images. I'll have to decide how important this issue is to me.

lippe
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Location: Wondelgem (Belgium)

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by lippe » 17 Nov 14 11:47

Mike,

My collection of nef files is limited, but it seems a nef-file altered by Nikon Capture NX2 is when converted to jpg is different when converting a nef straight from the camera to jpg. In Lightroom, this doesn't matter, the nef files exported to jpg are fine and do not require orientation correction.
Can you try on some nef-images, straight from the camera, to import them in Photo Supreme without applying any orientation correction. I expect both in windows and in Photo Supreme will display correctly. Then create a fresh batch in V3 for testing.

I did some further testing today on a collection of nef files from Nikon D7000 and D5100 , Canon D600. All files are in mixed orientation. And i also included the file you provided but without using the xmp-side car file!
I also created a new batch with the resize > Sharpen > convert + write meta. The batch option are set 'import output files' and also 'Store created file as new version'.
I don't set the folder. I will get a warning the files could been overwritten but in this case, i ignore the warning.
On importing all files are correctly orientated. After running the batch, al files are versionized correctly and i cannot confirm there is a bug.
Al thumbs are correctly orientated in Photo Supreme. But the exported files from nef are wrong rotated except the nef altered by Nikon Capture NX2. you provided.
I created an issue in mantis : http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=2644

Lippe,
Photo Supreme V3, LR6, FPV, PSE14 - vaio i5 @ 2.5GHz + 8GB , 850 EVO 500GB - WD 1TB - Windows 10 Pro 64 bits- DS216play - EOS 600D

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 17 Nov 14 14:04

Lippe,

I'm not having any issues with the NEFs themselves in the sense that they all display properly in Supreme after being altered in Capture NX2. (EDIT: As my next post indicates, I discovered that that was not true.) My only problem is when using Supreme to create JPEGs from the altered NEFs. I never encountered this issue when using IDimager V4 or V5 all this time. That's 6 1/2 years. I've never gotten the process to be reliable in Photo Supreme the last few months. I don't know if the issue should be categorized as a bug and frankly don't care. All I know is that something seems to be different between IDimager and Photo Supreme: IDimager works fine when creating JPEGs from my altered NEFs and Supreme doesn't.

Thanks for continuing to try to figure this out. I'll have to think through my alternatives in the next couple of days.
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 19 Nov 14 15:56, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 19 Nov 14 15:55

I have very promising information that hopefully remains so after more use has occurred over time. I discovered that the thumbnails of many NEFs were not accurately oriented. They were displayed vertically, leading me to believe that all was well with them, even though I finally discovered the image when displayed in the Image Viewer or the Light Table was displayed horizontally. (I usually view my NEFs only as thumbnails, so I had no reason to check this.) So, I did the following:

1. Rebuilt the NEF thumbnails to ensure their orientation matched the orientation of the underlying image
2. Rotated the NEF thumbnails being displayed in an improper orientation
3. Rebuilt the NEF thumbnails again to ensure that the corrected display of the orientation would "stick." (This step may not be necessary, as I did it only as a holdover from a requirement when using IDimager.)
4. Applied "Convert metadata to XMP" to all NEFs (Thank you, Vlad!)
5. Used the Batch panel to create the JPEGs as versions of the NEF. The configuration that writes the NEF's metadata to the JPEG is enabled.

All 124 images were displayed properly in Windows and in Supreme's Collection Viewer, Image Viewer and Light Table. The Date Time Original of the JPEGs matches the Date Time Original of the corresponding NEF. More than half of those images are vertically oriented, so the results are very promising.

vlad
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Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by vlad » 19 Nov 14 16:09

Great news, Mike, hopefully all your issues with vertical images are now solved for good!

(Btw, I haven't used batches except for renaming I think, but I'm wondering if you could further automate your workflow above using a single batch, which should do the rotation, conversion, versioning etc; If not, a custom script might do it - but I couldn't help with it for now, sorry.)

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 19 Nov 14 16:33

A single batch process can't be used to do all of that because the vertically oriented NEFs are sometimes displayed properly, sometimes not; I wouldn't want to rotate all of them. That at least has always been the case when using IDimager and seems to be the case during the relatively little time that I have been using Supreme. It was certainly the case in this particular circumstance.

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 20 Nov 14 13:39

The command, "Convert metadata to XMP," suggested by Vlad seems to be critical to my success (hopefully it remains a success) of solving this issue. Coincidentally, Hert explained today in another thread exactly what that command does. For those not aware, I have copied and pasted it below and I have added for emphasis the bold font to the information that seems to be at the root of my situation:

"The option 'Convert metadata to XMP' will re-read the Exif and IPTC-IIM layer and replicate the applicable information found there to the XMP layer...making sure that your metadata is again consistent. It's a maintenance feature that you'll only need when you expect inconsistencies."

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Nikon Vertical Images

Post by Mike Buckley » 30 Nov 14 14:47

For the benefit of anyone using Capture NX2, I have fine-tuned the procedure to the fewer following steps:

1. Rebuilt the NEF thumbnails to determine whether their orientation matched the orientation of the underlying image. If not, proceeded to Step 2; otherwise, skip Step 2.
2. Applied "Convert metadata to XMP" to all NEFs (Thank you, Vlad!)
3. Used the Batch panel to create the JPEGs as versions of the NEF. The configuration that writes the NEF's metadata to the JPEG is enabled.

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