Post Your Label Set Contents

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Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by Mike Buckley » 29 Sep 14 15:48

Vlad asked me to post the contents of my Landscape label set. Note that my labels of the set are not thoroughly conceived to represent all likely possibilities. Instead, they are labels that I have used in the past. Due to the kind of photography that I do, I expect to be able to use them in the future, which explains why they are included in my label set.

Also keep in mind that, for me, the biggest reason to use a label set is not because of the speed of using it, though that of course is nice. The most important reason is that being able to browse the contents of a label set makes it less likely that I'll forget to assign appropriate labels to a particular image.

Post your label set, regardless of the theme, that you feel would be helpful to other Photo Supreme users.

My Landscape label set:

beach
boulder
bridge
canyon
cliff
clouds
fjord
flower
fog
forest
glacier
high
hiking
hiking trail
ice formation
iceberg
landscape (duh! :mrgreen: )
large
lava
lava beach
lighting (this label is code to me meaning especially attractive light)
mountain
natural arch
ocean
outdoors
park
rainbow
reflection
rock formation
sand
sand dune
seascape
silhouette
sky
snow
steam
steep
sunrise
sunset
tall
village
water
water hole
waterfall
wave
wetland

vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by vlad » 29 Sep 14 17:32

Hi Mike,

Thank you very much for kindly and promptly answering my suggestion and sharing your Landscape label set! A couple of first impressions and questions, please:

1) I do find your label set very helpful: virtually every label there would apply to some subset of my landscape photos too, except perhaps 'lava beach'. (I can't remember ever visiting such a beach, although I visited many wild beaches and some of them did have remarkable geological formations. Which lava beach(es) did you visit?)

2) What do you use 'silhouette' for? Is it for photos featuring one or more persons (or shadows) in the background - or am I off the mark?

3) I see several adjectives in your list ('high', 'large', 'steep' and 'tall') - how do you deal with those? (Sorry if that's a silly question - I've been mostly avoiding adjective keywords due to their highly subjective nature; not that I care about anyone judging my keywords, but I think I'd have trouble making up my own mind if something is really large or steep, for example. To me, such adjectives appear to apply - or not - to just too many photos, depending on what (subjective) "standard" I am inclined to consider at a particular moment. Of course, Everest will always be large and steep - and a standing redwood wil always be tall :wink: )

4) As far as I can tell, 'clouds' is the only label in your list featuring the plural form ('outdoors' not withstanding). Is this intentional? Do you still apply the label to photos with a single cloud? In contrast, do you apply 'flower' to a field of flowers? (Again, sorry for being pedantic; I pondered the singular/plural dilemma in the past, and at the time I decided I would define all my noun labels using the singular form. I'm not 100% that is a good idea though - at least, it doesn't seem natural in some cases. Synonyms do alleviate the dilemma somewhat - although one still needs to decide on the eventual keywords in the image metadata.)

5) Do you have any landscape images without the 'outdoors' label? (I'm not going to ask about the 'landscape' label. :mrgreen: )

6) Do all your landscape labels generate keywords, or are there some private labels here too?


Thank you once again for sharing your label set and please rest assured that I'm not nitpicking on details (btw, feel free to ignore my questions) - I'm simply trying to learn from you and others on various label uses and conventions. At the moment, I do not have any useful label set to share - but I hope to have in the future, after I firm up my own cataloging strategy and conventions.

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by Mike Buckley » 29 Sep 14 18:56

vlad wrote:Which lava beach(es) did you visit?
In rural Iceland. Fortunately, the lava is now hardened. :mrgreen: Seriously, if you enjoy seeing and photographing landscapes, Iceland is a must-visit place, though very expensive.
2) What do you use 'silhouette' for?
Examples of items that can be in silhouette include a tree, forest, rock formation, animal and/or people.
3) I see several adjectives in your list ('high', 'large', 'steep' and 'tall') - how do you deal with those?
My compositions often include a sense of scale that conveys height, size and the like. So, I think about those adjectives on their own: An object can be high in the scene regardless of its size. It can be anywhere in the scene if it is large. It can be steep, such as the face of a cliff. It can be tall even though it's not steep (though admittedly I can't think of an example at the moment). Even so, it never hurts to catalog an object using two labels if the object might be tall and steep. That's because tall refers to the relative height and steep refers to the relative rate of ascent from bottom to top or descent from top to bottom.
I think I'd have trouble making up my own mind if something is really large or steep, for example.
As explained above, it can be both. However, it really doesn't matter how we think of a particular object when we catalog it. It only matters how we think of it when the image is returned in a search. If I catalog an object today that I think of as steep but a decade from now that I don't think of that way, no harm is done when the image is returned in a search. On the other hand, if I don't find an image because I was overly restrictive ten years earlier about how I thought of it, I might not be able to find the image.
To me, such adjectives appear to apply - or not - to just too many photos, depending on what (subjective) "standard" I am inclined to consider at a particular moment.
As alluded to above, I have no problems with more images being returned than I prefer because I can always cull them, such as by viewing only 5-star photos. The problem is when I can't find an image because too few are being returned. That explains why I try to err on the side of assigning labels that might be questionable rather than not assigning them and having the consequence of not being able to find an image.
As far as I can tell, 'clouds' is the only label in your list featuring the plural form ('outdoors' not withstanding)
Thanks for catching that. I'm using the David Riecks Controlled Vocabulary Keyword Vocabulary, which includes the singular and plural forms of many nouns. I recently began deleting the plural form from my hierarchy and just now made a note to do the same pertaining to the use of cloud and clouds. By the way, I think outdoors is classified as a singular noun, not a plural noun.
Do you have any landscape images without the 'outdoors' label?
Hopefully not. However, I have images that are assigned the outdoors label that aren't landscapes. Coincidentally, up until about two weeks ago I had thousands of images that I had mistakenly forgotten to assign the outdoors label. I think that was partly because at the time I had not included outdoors in my Landscapes label set or my Favorites. As a result, I wasn't being reminded to assign outdoors.

You didn't ask if I use the indoors label. :mrgreen: I don't. That's because I can always conduct a search of all photos that aren't assigned outdoors.
Do all your landscape labels generate keywords, or are there some private labels here too?
I don't remember ever configuring a private label.

snowman1
Posts: 305
Joined: 01 Jan 07 3:13
Location: UK

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by snowman1 » 29 Sep 14 21:19

Thanks for sharing this Mike, it has made me think about my own labelling. It makes perfect sense, now you've highlighted it, to use adjectives, and emotions, as labels, as what else are photos about if not what they convey and the the effect they are meant to produce on the viewer. A conventional "objective" classification doesn't convey these subjective things.
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
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Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by Mike Buckley » 29 Sep 14 21:47

snowman1 wrote:what else are photos about if not what they convey and the the effect they are meant to produce on the viewer.
Exactly.

If I want to present a slide show of my best images that convey a variety of moods, it has done me no good to have assigned labels that only depict the objects in the scene. Indeed, as much as I have tried to assign the labels that are especially subjective, I'm thinking lately that I haven't done a good enough job of doing that. I'm giving thought to creating a new Label Set pertaining to Mood. Its labels might include high-contrast, low-contrast, small tonal range, dramatic, tranquil and the like. Once I do that, I'll need to go through my entire catalog and consider adding labels to certain images.

tstoddard
Posts: 578
Joined: 07 Sep 12 12:51

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by tstoddard » 29 Sep 14 21:52

This is an interesting conversation and one that is giving me some incentive to go back through my catalog and add more labels to images that I would consider to be landscapes or seascapes. One issue for me is determining when a picture becomes a landscape versus just a picture of a tree or a boat in the ocean or a bird in a pond. I also find myself asking, is a seascape a type of landscape? Are they mutually exclusive or can a seascape be a landscape too? Most pictures I've taken of the ocean do involve a land element.

Mike, it is very helpful for me to see the set of labels you work with, thank you. I notice some labels that I would probably never need but others that are conspicuously absent. I'm surprised you don't have "river" or "stream" or "creek". What about "dam", "coastline", "rapids", "lake", "pond", "moon", "sun", "valley", "hills", "vineyards", "farms", etc....?

As you can see, I can think of many labels that apply to landscape photos. I used to use label sets when assigning fish to my underwater pictures but after a while, I had so many different labels that trying to find them in the set became tedious and I just went back to typing the first few letters and selecting them from the drop down list or using the recently used label set. Do you not find 50 labels to be a lot of labels to have in one set?

After reading these posts, I might have to revisit my label sets, especially since we will soon have the ability to modify multiple labels simultaneously. It will be a lot easier to select a bunch of labels in the label tree and edit them all at once rather than having to add them one at a time to a set.
Tom Stoddard

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by Mike Buckley » 29 Sep 14 22:30

tstoddard wrote:is a seascape a type of landscape? Are they mutually exclusive or can a seascape be a landscape too?
As you can see, I have included seascape in my Landscape Label Set. That is as a matter of convenience because, again, I'm not trying to be accurate as to what constitutes a landscape or a seascape. Instead, the only thing that matters to me is that when I want to find an image years from now, I can do that. So, if an image significantly displays both land and sea, I'll assign both landscape and seascape to the image. If I did the kind of photography that included a lot of land in the foreground of a cityscape, I would similarly assign cityscape and landscape to the image.
I'm surprised you don't have "river" or "stream" or "creek".
That's because I can never decide, as an example, the difference between a stream and a creek. So, when any body of water of any size is displayed in an image, I assign water. If I am actually looking, as an example, for all photos of relatively small bodies of water, I can easily cull to eliminate the images from the collection that display large bodies of water.
What about "dam", "coastline", "rapids", "lake", "pond", "moon", "sun", "valley", "hills", "vineyards", "farms", etc....?
All good suggestions, especially for anyone who might regularly photograph those subjects. I would be surprised to learn that any of those labels aren't already included in my David Riecks Controlled Vocabulary.

The decision about whether to include certain labels in a Label Set also depends on how each of us thinks. As an example, I don't need to include sun or moon in a Label Set because I'm confident that I'll remember on my own without needing a reminder from the Label Set to assign those labels. To be even more specific, when I come upon a scene that includes the sun at sunrise, I'll likely assign sun without needing the reminder but I'll forget to assign sunrise without having the reminder. (I'm not proud to mention that. :mrgreen: )
Do you not find 50 labels to be a lot of labels to have in one set?
My decisions about that speaks to the issue that, for me, it's important to walk the fine line of creating an effective Label Set; it needs to include enough labels to be a helpful reminder but not so many labels that an unnecessary amount of time is required to browse all of them. My Landscape Label Set is only one of two sets that contains so many labels and I would not want to add many more for the concern that you mention. (I'll post that other Label Set later.) Most of my Label Sets contain 15 or fewer labels.
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 29 Sep 14 23:32, edited 1 time in total.

george
Posts: 213
Joined: 24 Jun 07 15:57
Location: USA

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by george » 29 Sep 14 23:10

On the topic of lava beaches, the big island of Hawaii has several. I can personally vouch for their beauty.
George

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by Mike Buckley » 30 Sep 14 3:21

My Architectural Label Set:

Quonset hut (Yes, I realize that it's not in alphabetical order. Unfortunately, Supreme displays it out of order. No, that's not because the first character is a space; there is no space before the "Q.")
altar
arch
archaeology
architecture (duh :mrgreen: )
barn
bathroom
bell tower
brick
bridge
building
cabin
ceiling
chimney
church
column
commercial building
cross
dome
doors (I need to change that to "door.")
elevator
exterior
fireplace
fountain
glass
handrail
hotel
hut
interior design
landscape (as in landscape architecture)
large
log cabin
metal
museum
obelisk
onion dome
pavement
porch
residence
restaurant
roof
rorbu (plural: rorbuer)
schools (I need to change that to "school.")
slate roof
stained glass window
stairs
steeple
stone
tall
thatched roof
windows (I need to change that to "window.")
wooden

snowman1
Posts: 305
Joined: 01 Jan 07 3:13
Location: UK

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by snowman1 » 30 Sep 14 23:04

sorting upper case first perhaps?
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
--------------------------------------

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Post Your Label Set Contents

Post by Mike Buckley » 01 Oct 14 5:22

snowman1 wrote:sorting upper case first perhaps?
Yes, that's exactly what is happening. Thank you. Very odd in my mind.

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