workflow help - keywording

HCS
Posts: 165
Joined: 19 Feb 14 22:08

workflow help - keywording

Post by HCS » 26 Sep 14 20:57

I'm looking for best practices in the area of keywording (or category assignment) workflow.

I have to cover a huge backload, and find the assign panel not really helpful in every way it could be. I'd like to select multiple images and drag 'n' drop them on one (or more) keyword(s). Are there any secrets how this could be done?

I have a portfolio called "Inbox" and would like to mass apply categories by drag and drop, but the only way i know is to type individual keywords in the assign panel and wait for the system to pull up the matching categories (which indeed is a really handy tool sometimes). I know in the mean time of the label sets, but that feels like duplication. But on top of that, i have to replicate my category structure.

Any other way of doing this?

Thanks very much.

vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by vlad » 26 Sep 14 22:01

HCS wrote:I'm looking for best practices in the area of keywording (or category assignment) workflow.

I have to cover a huge backload, and find the assign panel not really helpful in every way it could be. I'd like to select multiple images and drag 'n' drop them on one (or more) keyword(s). Are there any secrets how this could be done?
Well, you could drag'n'drop multiple images on any label in the catalog panel (on the left) or on any label in the label assignment panel (on the right), although I find clicking on a label in LAP faster.
I have a portfolio called "Inbox" and would like to mass apply categories by drag and drop, but the only way i know is to type individual keywords in the assign panel and wait for the system to pull up the matching categories (which indeed is a really handy tool sometimes).
Do you also know that you can click the drop down icon (next to the loupe) in the LAP and that allows you to navigate and assign or unassign multiple labels at a time? Do you know that you can add labels to Favorites? Keep an eye on Recently Used labels - those may be useful too.
I know in the mean time of the label sets, but that feels like duplication.
Not necessarily. Do you know that you can assign or unassign a whole label set at a time? (Click on the very right of the label set in LAP.)

Hope that helps,
Vlad

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by Mike Buckley » 26 Sep 14 22:54

I agree with Vlad that once you get your Label Sets and Favorites set up, using the Assign panel to click rather than drag and drop is the fastest method. Another advantage of using them is that they act as reminders of labels that you might want to assign to a particular style of image, which is actually more important than the speed. As an example, when cataloging landscapes, my Label Set Landscapes has nearly 50 labels ranging from beach to wetland.

HCS
Posts: 165
Joined: 19 Feb 14 22:08

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by HCS » 27 Sep 14 10:23

Thanks a lot gentlemen, i really appreciate your help.

Maybe i was looking too much to replicate my previous way of working (a behaviour seen many times), but i'm having troubles getting from the portfolio view of the catalogue to the category view. Maybe i'm used too much to the oft implemented way of setting up a keyword hierarchy and being able to use that to drop images on to assign those keywords (Media Pro, Digikam, Aftershot Pro/Bibble, etc. come to mind).

Anyway, i'll keep working on a workflow that suits me and certainly will explore the Favorites tip further.

Again, thanks much !

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by Mike Buckley » 27 Sep 14 12:03

HCS wrote:i'm having troubles getting from the portfolio view of the catalogue to the category view.
I also have a keyword hierarchy set up that has over 10,000 terms. When assigning catalog labels, I view the catalog in the Folders view, select the pertinent images, and click the pertinent labels located in the Assign panel. It works really fast, again, once the Label Sets and Favorites are established.

You might want to explain why you're using the Portfolio and Category views when assigning labels. Once we understand that, we might be able to provide better help. My guess is that you might want to leave your catalog in the Category view so you can easily use that panel to create labels. Simultaneously leave the Assign panel open so you can assign labels once they are created. See the Quick Manual - Cataloging for an explanation of how to do that.

Alternatively, I always use the Assign panel to both create and assign my labels. When I type a label in the text field that doesn't already exist in my hierarchy (sometimes I don't know whether it already exists), I can press the Enter key or click the new entry automatically populated in the dropdown list to generate a menu. That menu allows me to configure the new label about to be added to the hierarchy. Once I do that, clicking OK automatically inserts it into the hierarchy and assigns it to the selected image(s) all in one step.

Preston B
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Location: Columbia, CA

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by Preston B » 27 Sep 14 16:35

When assigning catalog labels, I view the catalog in the Folders view, select the pertinent images, and click the pertinent labels located in the Assign panel. It works really fast, again, once the Label Sets and Favorites are established.
This is the method I use, too. It is really quick.

Also, like Mike, I always use the Assign panel to create and assign labels.

--P
Preston Birdwell
Columbia, CA

Photo Supreme on Puget Systems Obsidian: Win 10-64 bit Intel i5Quad Core 3.3Ghz 32GB RAM, and Puget Systems Traverse Laptop. Chamonix 4x5 and Nikon D-7100.

Please visit my web site at www.gildedmoon.com

HCS
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Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by HCS » 27 Sep 14 20:55

Mike, thanks a lot in your extended effort to help me. Greatly appreciated.

Preston, thanks, good to know you're using the assign panel as well.

It's kind of hard to exactly describe what i mean. First, i'm not a native English speaker/writer, so it's difficult sometimes to "hit" the right significance. Second, it may actually take me more than a simple forum post to describe how i see my "perfect" workflow.

Anyway, with that out of the way, here goes. I have troubles wrapping my head around the fact that i'm setting up my hierarchical keywords in the category section of the catalogue and then to assign those keywords, i (seem to) have to re-"create" them in another panel. I can see the merit of the assignment panel and its options to slice the keywords differently than the hierarchy in the category section. But, that's not what i'm trying to do.

The reason i'm in the portfolio section, is that i'm using the approach Peter Krogh promoted in his DAM book, the so-called 'Drop zone'. I call it inbox. I work from there. I actually have a number of batch folders set up, i.e. Batch 1, Batch 2, etc. This enables me to deal with multiple incoming batches of work without mixing them up and retaining clear view of what i still have to do. I first thought of setting up a set of keywords for that, but as far as i can see, that doesn't play nice with the import program, which let's me import to portfolio immediately. I may not be understanding this fully/correctly though.

My images are in an inbox-batch folder initially. Later, after i'm done, or at my convenience, i'm moving them to their destination storage folder. I've setup a folder structure where i keep a dedicated number of RAW images in one folder, so not content related at all.

My earlier statement of difficulties getting from portfolio section to category section has to do with the inability, or rather, my inability to have a set of images selected in the portfolio section and having the section retained when i switch to the category section.

Before going further into how i work, i may need to better understand how to tackle above mentioned workflow with PSU.

snowman1
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Location: UK

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by snowman1 » 27 Sep 14 21:49

Hi HCS

First of all may I say that if English is not your native language then I congratulate you because your grasp of it exceeds many native speakers, and I truly would not have known it was not your first language.

I've been following this thread loosely, and if I may say so I wonder if yuo have not yet quite grasped the best way to use the structures and mechanisms available in PSU. It's a very flexible and powerful tool with, typically, many ways to approach a particular task, but there are some aspects where it is best to work with the grain as it were.

The main way of organising images is by using the hierarchical catalog labelling facilities. An image may be given an unlimited number of labels and hence organised in many different categories or structures simultaneously.

There are many many ways of assigning labels to images as has been pointed out already (and including a number of drag and drop methods though other methods may be quicker as has been said). The best thing is to read the quick start manual and the cataloging manual, both available from the help menu.

The portfolios are perhaps best thought of as collections of your best works - exactly the same way you would create a physical portfolio of prints to show customers (perhaps) in the physical world. So whilst they may also be used to organise your images I wouldn't view them as the primary method - that would be the catalog label structure.

As to physically moving images around in operating system folders - there are sometimes reasons to do this but generally speaking you would put them where you want them and then forget about them - because you will always be accessing them via the extremely flexible and comprehensive label structure. You don't ^need* to know where they are - PSU will find them for you!

This is a very, very, *very* simplified view. PSU has many very powerful and complex capabilities. But I feel you might be going off track and a very simplified overview may be of assistance - I do hope so.

Best of luck with it anyway. This forum is a great place to get help and I am constantly amazed at the knowledgable, helpful and generous people on here.
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
--------------------------------------

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by Mike Buckley » 27 Sep 14 22:25

HCS,

Your English is terrific!
HCS wrote: The reason i'm in the portfolio section, is that i'm using the approach Peter Krogh promoted in his DAM book, the so-called 'Drop zone'. I call it inbox. I work from there. I actually have a number of batch folders set up, i.e. Batch 1, Batch 2, etc. This enables me to deal with multiple incoming batches of work without mixing them up and retaining clear view of what i still have to do.
My inbox, as you call it, is a folder named IDimager Downloads. Each Batch as you call it is in its own dedicated sub-folder of IDimager Downloads. I know exactly which stage of my entire workflow each batch is in and that includes cataloging and post-processing. That's because I use all ten Folder State Definitions configured in Preferences and I assign the appropriate state to each folder. Once I'm done post-processing and cataloging all images in a particular folder, I move the images to a different folder that I think of as their final resting place (because there is never a reason to move them again for as long as I have them).

I agree with Snowman in thinking that the best use of Portfolios is to place post-processed, cataloged images in various collections. A particular image can reside in as many Portfolio Collections as you want without creating any new physical files. Using Portfolios as you're presently using them not only goes against their most beneficial use but is also causing you unnecessary troubles. That's because, as you mention, the Portfolio View can't be viewed at the same time as any of the other View modes. That explains why I think you're far better off always keeping either the Catalog View or Folder View displayed while simultaneously using the Assign panel.
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 28 Sep 14 8:54, edited 1 time in total.

tstoddard
Posts: 578
Joined: 07 Sep 12 12:51

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by tstoddard » 28 Sep 14 3:17

HCS wrote: The reason i'm in the portfolio section, is that i'm using the approach Peter Krogh promoted in his DAM book, the so-called 'Drop zone'. I call it inbox. I work from there. I actually have a number of batch folders set up, i.e. Batch 1, Batch 2, etc. This enables me to deal with multiple incoming batches of work without mixing them up and retaining clear view of what i still have to do. I first thought of setting up a set of keywords for that, but as far as i can see, that doesn't play nice with the import program, which let's me import to portfolio immediately. I may not be understanding this fully/correctly though.
HCS,

If I understand you correctly, I think the import session labels could work for you. I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned it yet. In your import profile, there is a check box to "Create a session catalog label". I believe it's enabled by default. What it does is create a label under the Import Sessions section of the catalog tree. Every time you do an import, a new label named with the date and time of the import is created and all images that were imported are assigned to that label. Those labels can act like virtual "Drop Zones". You can work with the images in those sessions just like you can with any other collection of images. Once you've finished cataloging them, you can simply delete the label. Those labels are kind of like the batch folders you described but they are virtual in that they don't represent physical directories on disk but collections of files that were imported at the same time.

I hope I'm understanding you correctly and that this suggestion helps you.
Tom Stoddard

Mike Buckley
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Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by Mike Buckley » 28 Sep 14 9:04

To follow up on Tom's suggestion to automatically create an import session catalog label, you could instead configure the import session to create a catalog label that matches the folder name. Both methods would work effectively as your inbox. In both cases, you would stop using the Portfolio View when creating and assigning catalog labels and would instead use the Category View. Remember that even when using the Category View to display a certain collection of images in your inbox, you could still use the Assign panel to create and assign catalog labels if that's appealing to you.

The main reason I don't use either kind of catalog label is that I would feel compelled to delete it when I have finished cataloging the images. For me, that's an unnecessary step, which I admit is a trivial point at best considering the little time required to delete a catalog label. It's also a step that I might forget to do, which is not nearly so trivial despite that I do my best to adhere to the exact same workflow when working with my images.

HCS
Posts: 165
Joined: 19 Feb 14 22:08

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by HCS » 28 Sep 14 9:37

Thanks again for the great help!

First off, i wasn't fishing for compliments about my use of the English language. Thanks very much anyway.

Mike, thanks again for your extended effort to help me. I am using a similar workflow to yours, except that i don't follow my post-processing like you. I only track my cataloging and then move the images to their final folder (it's aimed at archiving, which is not linked at all to the content of the images, referring to snowman1's remark above).

I see now and do agree that it's not smart for my purposes to move between the two views of the catalogue.

Tom, thanks for pointing me to the import catalogue labels. I knew they were there, but it hadn't dawned upon me to use them for this purpose.

So, i need to absorb this and see whether i can make it my own workflow.

Thanks all for helping me out, exactly the kind of input i was hoping for!

jstartin
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Location: UK

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by jstartin » 28 Sep 14 19:19

There is, in this thread, excellent advice on using PSU effectively. One little point is missing. If you make a Portfolio Collection, a Folder, or anything else really, a Favourite then the corresponding thumbnails are instantly available while the Catalog Explorer remains on display.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; SSD; 16GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by vlad » 29 Sep 14 14:18

HCS,

I'll add one more tip to the wealth of good advices: you could copy the images you're working on (possibly from multiple collections or other sources) to the Image Basket and have it displayed while having the Catalog view open. (The IB content is cumulative + persistent across PSU sessions.)
HCS wrote:I see now and do agree that it's not smart for my purposes to move between the two views of the catalogue.
I occasionally switch between different catalog views myself and I can therefore understand your wish for a better way. I have submitted ticket 2460 to propose a unified, master catalog view; feel free to vote for it (but don't hold your breath to be implemented anytime soon - I don't hold mine). The multi-tab browsing in version 3 may be a game changer anyway.
Tom, thanks for pointing me to the import catalogue labels. I knew they were there, but it hadn't dawned upon me to use them for this purpose.
I use import catalog labels just like Tom, so I second (or third) his advice. I remember some PSU V3 improvements announced in this area too.

vlad
Posts: 895
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: workflow help - keywording

Post by vlad » 29 Sep 14 14:58

OFF-TOPIC (my apologies, but I cannot send a PM):
Mike Buckley wrote:As an example, when cataloging landscapes, my Label Set Landscapes has nearly 50 labels ranging from beach to wetland.
Mike, I also love nature and have a wealth of landscape pictures taken around the world and waiting to be cataloged. I had a Nature hierarchy started in IdImager but I would like to rethink it. I'm really pushing my luck here, but would you be willing to share (perhaps privately) your labels in the Landscapes set? If not, I can certainly understand and there is absolutely no problem - I just thought I would ask.

(I'm simply looking for decent label coverage suitable for nature photography, not for completeness - 50 sounds like a workable number, although I think my Nature hierarchy in IDI was growing up quickly. I should add I'm not a pro photographer, so I'm not particularly interested in keywording specifically tailored to commercial niches or interests.)

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