Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

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Hondor
Posts: 91
Joined: 05 Jul 14 15:52

Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by Hondor » 16 Aug 14 14:50

Greetings

Overall, I'm very happy with the adjustment features in PSU, and I've recently taken up a bad habit of fiddling with my shots over and over again.

Trouble is, I'm using JPEG only, so each operation involves a lossy re-compression, degrading my pictures further.

I'm on older hardware withe 4 GB RAM on 32-bit Win7, so I'll pass on all kind suggestions suggestions to go RAW - I wouldn't be able to stand the lag time or the fan noise. Also, I don't have the internet bandwidth to be able to backup such filesizes properly.

Alternatively, I'm considering lossy DNG, which implies near JPG-size and better correction options. I would, if possible, prefer to continue doing the major part of my corrections within PSU. Is that a possibility?

If so, would such edits be destructive (i.e. re-compressed) or non-destructive? I have read somewhere else, that cropping would imply re-compression, but I'm unsure about WB corrections or exposure adjustments. I accept, that non-destructive edits would be vendor locked-in, but that's fine, if a somewhat untainted file could still be retrieved from an old DNG for re-adjustment in a future application.

So to rephrase: would I be able to switch from JPEG to lossy DNG and more lightheartedly fiddle further about within PSU ?
- no previous experience with Idimager whatsoever...

sanphotgn
Posts: 469
Joined: 26 Aug 07 18:06

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by sanphotgn » 16 Aug 14 21:06

You could make your .jpg files read-only (they won't be modified) and PSU will create a side car file (.xmp in this case). Your changes are applied to the preview image in PSU. PSU allows you to turn the recipe on / off so you can compare the changes you made with the original. If you like one of the changes and want a "final" copy, you could use the "save image as" and save at 100% quality.

I tested this with an existing database and it appears the recipe information is not written to the .xmp file unless I save metadata to file. However, this may due to the Preferences settings in my existing database.
Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2602 (64 bits) (Windows)

Hert
Posts: 16002
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by Hert » 16 Aug 14 21:34

Editing jpg files is also lossless and it doesn't matter if the jpg is read only or not. When the recipe is written to the file then this is just a set of parameters in the metadata. The jpg is not being recompressed when metadata is written to the file. You only lose details in the image when you save the recipe as a new image. But that defeats the purpose of lossless editing. What you typically would do is to just apply the recipe and use the Share features if you need a version that has the recipe applied. For instance, when you upload a file to Facebook then a copy of the file is uploaded where the edits are applied to that copy (not the original). The same for email, Flickr, smugmug, folder, or all other sharing features.
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Hondor
Posts: 91
Joined: 05 Jul 14 15:52

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by Hondor » 17 Aug 14 14:37

IDimager wrote:What you typically would do is to just apply the recipe and use the Share features if you need a version that has the recipe applied.
I have only recently discovered the sharing button - as far as my experiments today have gone, my adjustments don't appear to carry over to the shared (copied) picture, if I do not apply resizing to the pictures in the process. I've only shared to my desktop folder.

Is that a bug or a feature?

I am actually pleased with the opportunity to copy multiple unaltered pictures out of my archiving system, but I'm still quite confused over what happens when I choose some options over others.

- and, since I'm still considering using lossy DNG for my future archiving format, I would really like to know, how much of the above is applicable to manipulating lossy DNG's (if that's at all possible).
- no previous experience with Idimager whatsoever...

Hert
Posts: 16002
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by Hert » 17 Aug 14 16:58

It doesn't matter if you're using jpg or DNG or psd or raw. All edits made in PSU are parametric edits and is always lossless. If you save a receive then the file is never altered.
Most often the motivation is RAW shooters who want to use a uniform RA w format that can also update previews when using Adobe tools. What's your motivation?
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Hondor
Posts: 91
Joined: 05 Jul 14 15:52

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by Hondor » 17 Aug 14 18:22

IDimager wrote:Most often the motivation is RAW shooters who want to use a uniform RA w format that can also update previews when using Adobe tools. What's your motivation?
I would like to acquire at least some of the benefits from RAW, e.g. better WB and exposure correction, but my current hardware does not have the power to handle 20 mpix RAWs. Also, storage size still matters to me. Finally, if you use MS-OneDrive with JPEG's undocumented thinks happen to your metadata. I tedn to circumvent this by putting photos in compression containers (7z), but these are unfortunately rather large and a hassle to decompress, when i need to retrieve just one picture. I would hope that OneDrive was DNG-unaware, so metadata would be left alone, but I haven't tested that yet .

Sharing some non-resized photos to my desktop folder didn't include my adjustments. Is that a bug?
- no previous experience with Idimager whatsoever...

Hert
Posts: 16002
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by Hert » 17 Aug 14 19:25

Sharing some non-resized photos to my desktop folder didn't include my adjustments. Is that a bug?
If you disable sizing then that indicates that you want the original file and adjustments aren't applied. If you want to export with adjustments and original size then you must specify some sizing. For instance; set the resize method to Longest Side and a size of 99999. When the resize option "enlarge images that are smaller" is switched off then you'll get the original size.
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Hondor
Posts: 91
Joined: 05 Jul 14 15:52

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by Hondor » 17 Aug 14 20:23

Ah - feature, then...

Thanks for the tip. I'll probably make some different export profiles then. One for "do not alter", another for "keep the size but apply changes".
- no previous experience with Idimager whatsoever...

vlad
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Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by vlad » 17 Aug 14 21:15

Hondor wrote:Ah - feature, then...
Well, it seems to work as designed - but I wouldn't call it a feature either :wink:
(What I mean is that the need for the resizing trick in order to keep the original size + adjustments seems quite unintuitive to me. Perhaps a "Share original (unaltered) images" profile option, separate from sizing, would remove any confusion?)

orensbruli
Posts: 5
Joined: 07 Jan 19 18:02

Re: Can PSU adjust lossy DNG natively?

Post by orensbruli » 07 Jan 19 18:33

vlad wrote:
17 Aug 14 21:15
Hondor wrote:Ah - feature, then...
Well, it seems to work as designed - but I wouldn't call it a feature either :wink:
(What I mean is that the need for the resizing trick in order to keep the original size + adjustments seems quite unintuitive to me. Perhaps a "Share original (unaltered) images" profile option, separate from sizing, would remove any confusion?)
I'm with you Vlad. I don't know if it is yet like explained here, but I think it could have a more intuitive option to share / export with adjustments but without resizing (or fake enlarging).
Personally, I don't think that the user who has done adjustments to a photo and wants to share it, would think that "disable sizing then that indicates that you want the original".

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