PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

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syncrasy
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Joined: 11 Aug 14 16:42

PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by syncrasy » 13 Aug 14 15:56

I'm a prospective Photo Supreme user (coming from iView/Expression Media). The software looks very promising but I don't see any documentation for PS other than the short list in the "Main Features & Highlights" section on the product page. The list is missing many features that I would need if I were to convert from Expression Media. I realize I could begin using the trial version to see if it has all the features I need, and I will do so when I have more time, but does a full list of PS features exist? If not, are there any former iView/EM/Media Pro users who can share there experiences? (E.g., What does PS lack compared to iView/EM? What does PS do better?)

Or would it be more useful if I post my long list of (36+) requirements so that Hert can reply "Yes or No" to each one? (It's a long list, so that's why I ask if a PS feature list already exists to save everyone's time.)

Hert
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Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by Hert » 13 Aug 14 16:35

I'd be more than happy to reply with Yes/No (or more extensive) to each of your requirements. That's probably a lot faster than you reading through documentation.

In the Trial Version, there's a Help menu, and there are several "Quick Start" documents listed there. Here are the links:
General Quick Start
Cataloging
Searching
Folder and File Management
Advanced Filtering
GEO Tagging
User Management (Server Edition Only)
Maintenance
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Hert
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Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by Hert » 13 Aug 14 16:43

And of course a very warm welcome to the forum.
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syncrasy
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Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by syncrasy » 13 Aug 14 16:48

Thank you! Rather than post my list here, I sent it to IDImager support via email. That would probably be the easiest method for "yes/no" comments. In the meantime I'll start reading through the links you provided.

Hert
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Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by Hert » 13 Aug 14 18:57

I received the questions in good order and will respond ASAP
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syncrasy
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Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by syncrasy » 13 Aug 14 21:36

Hert,

Thank you very much for the quick response to my "DAM requirements list." Photo Supreme is certainly very feature rich and it performs many (but not all) of the tasks that I can currently perform in Expression Media. I went ahead and installed the trial version and spent about 30 minutes testing it to learn more. Below is a quick summary of my experience...
  • Nicely designed and easy to use. Obviously a different experience than iView/Expression Media, but many features are analogous and can be learned with study.
  • I am impressed that PS has the ability to show edited NEFs on a Mac (edited outside of Photo Supreme). Expression Media and Media Pro lost this ability on all post Mac OS Tiger systems. I never understood why.
Here are a few missing features compared to iView/EM (this is not a comprehensive list; just the features I found lacking in my quick test):

[Updated to correct for my errors. Only two of my listed items are actually missing in PS, and these are in bold.]
  1. Unable to hide selected images to show only the unselected images (i.e., the opposite of Filter Active Selection) CORRECTION: Can be accomplished via a keystroke combination to invert selection.
  2. Light Table doesn't allow separate zooming/panning for images CORRECTION: Can be accomplished via a keystroke combination, available in the next release for Mac.
  3. No obvious way to Update Folder to find new images without re-importing new images separately CORRECTION: The Verify Folder option will update the folder.
  4. Unable to generate and attach a JPEG to an Apple Mail message (as Hert explained, due to MacAppStore limitations).
  5. It appears that the hierarchical keywords (set up via New Category, applied via Labels) do not fully embed with the image (as viewed in Photoshop). Only the lowest keyword in the hierarchy is embedded. Expression Media embeds the entire hierarchy as flat keywords. CORRECTION: Can be accomplished by choosing delimited keywords in Preferences.
  6. Lack of Web/HTML gallery generation feature.
Items #1-2 are minor. Items #3-5 are of medium importance for my needs. Unfortunately item #6 (Web gallery generation) is the most critical missing feature for me. I understand your reasons for not including it, but this is an essential part of my workflow and business Web site (stock images in addition to other products and services). A pro SmugMug or Zenfolio account would not only cost more money than my own hosting service but also would require fragmenting my business's online presence. My site is static, so the alternative of creating a dynamic web site is beyond my current technical abilities.

So I won't be able to switch to Photo Supreme at this time. Of course, I might some day re-evaluate my business structure and/or learn PHP, but for now, I'll have to stick with Expression Media (as long as it will run on my Mac).
Last edited by syncrasy on 13 Aug 14 23:26, edited 4 times in total.

Hert
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Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by Hert » 13 Aug 14 21:53

You're going too fast and jumping conclusions ;)
syncrasy wrote:
  1. Unable to hide selected images to show only the unselected images (i.e., the opposite of Filter Active Selection)
"Filter Active Selection" is a Filter Script. You (or I) could easily duplicate that Filter Script file and make it do the opposite. That's 2 minutes work and doesn't need a new version. And of course you can also "invert selection" (Cmd+Opt+i) and then use the Filter Active Selection. Same result. (Windows users press Ctrl+Alt+i to invert the active selection)
[*]Light Table doesn't allow separate zooming/panning for images
Hold down the Cmd key to zoom individual images in the Lighttable (Windows users hold down the Ctrl key)
[*]No obvious way to Update Folder to find new images without re-importing new images separately
1. Click FOLDERS
2. Select the folder that you want to find changes in (could be a high level folder)
3. Right click and select "Verify Folder"
[*]Unable to generate and attach a JPEG to an Apple Mail message (as you explained, due to MacAppStore limitations).
True
[*]It appears that the hierarchical keywords (set up via New Category, applied via Labels) do not fully embed with the image (as viewed in Photoshop). Only the lowest keyword in the hierarchy is embedded. Expression Media embeds the entire hierarchy as flat keywords.
If you want flat hierarchical keywords (Photo Supreme calls those "delimited keywords") then you should enable that in Preferences -> Synchronize Settings -> Write Settings -> Write delimited keywords.

Also read the notes in the linked Cataloging manual by searching for "Keywords and Hierarchical Keywords in Metadata"
[*]Lack of Web/HTML gallery generation feature[/list]
True. However you can fully prepare your website images, for example with a "Share to Folder" or a "Share to FTP" profile. But you're right that PSU won't build your HTML pages. There are very good stand alone tools out there that do this for free and offer some great templates. Then use the photos that PSU prepared for you.
So I won't be able to switch to Photo Supreme at this time. Of course, I might some day re-evaluate my business structure and/or learn PHP, but for now, I'll have to stick with Expression Media (as long as it will run on my Mac).
That's ok. Thank you for trying.
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Lou_Salkind
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Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by Lou_Salkind » 13 Aug 14 22:45

Unable to generate and attach a JPEG to an Apple Mail message (as you explained, due to MacAppStore limitations).
Hert for sure would know better than I, but I think if you just download the Mac version from IDimager directly, instead of through the Mac AppStore, you should be able to do this (I certainly send images via email on a Mac, although I am not sure exactly what you mean by an "Apple Mail message").

syncrasy
Posts: 9
Joined: 11 Aug 14 16:42

Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by syncrasy » 13 Aug 14 22:50

IDimager wrote:You're going too fast and jumping conclusions ;)
You're right. My apologies. I've added corrections to my list above.
Hold down the Cmd key to zoom individual images in the Lighttable (Windows users hold down the Ctrl key)
I tried this but am unable to make it work. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. (I'm on Mac OS 10.6.8 if that makes a difference)
If you want flat hierarchical keywords (Photo Supreme calls those "delimited keywords") then you should enable that in Preferences -> Synchronize Settings -> Write Settings -> Write delimited keywords.

Also read the notes in the linked Cataloging manual by searching for "Keywords and Hierarchical Keywords in Metadata"
This is confusing because the manual says "in general I vote against the use of delimited keywords and highly recommend today's industry standard for it; being the "hierarchical keywords" (also known as Lightroom keywords; though it has nothing to do with the Lightroom software itself). Using hierarchical keywords ensures the highest interoperability level with other metadata products."

Is Photoshop CS6 not properly reading the hierarchical keywords whereas Lightroom will?
[You] can fully prepare your website images, for example with a "Share to Folder" or a "Share to FTP" profile. But you're right that PSU won't build your HTML pages. There are very good stand alone tools out there that do this for free and offer some great templates. Then use the photos that PSU prepared for you.
Using third party template tools won't work for my needs. My current iView HTML templates rely on iView fields and annotations, including custom fields and their contents. The template would have to be integrated within PSU for the HTML generation process to insert the annotation content for each image.
Last edited by syncrasy on 13 Aug 14 23:01, edited 2 times in total.

syncrasy
Posts: 9
Joined: 11 Aug 14 16:42

Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by syncrasy » 13 Aug 14 22:53

Lou_Salkind wrote:
Unable to generate and attach a JPEG to an Apple Mail message (as you explained, due to MacAppStore limitations).
Hert for sure would know better than I, but I think if you just download the Mac version from IDimager directly, instead of through the Mac AppStore, you should be able to do this (I certainly send images via email on a Mac, although I am not sure exactly what you mean by an "Apple Mail message").
Hert explained to me that he removed Apple Mail integration from the direct download version so as to not have to maintain two versions/feature sets.

By "Apple Mail message" I simply mean a new email window (as if clicking the New Message button in Mail).

Hert
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Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by Hert » 13 Aug 14 23:17

syncrasy wrote:I tried this but am unable to make it work. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. (I'm on Mac OS 10.6.8 if that makes a difference)
I couldn't imagine this not working. But I dug into it and it is implemented with the Ctrl key. But...a context menu was added to the viewer recently and of course on Mac Ctrl+click will open that context menu and the "single" zoom is ignored. So you found a bug here. Now fixed for a next update. This should have been implemented with the Cmd key on the Mac, not the Ctrl key.
This is confusing because the manual says "in general I vote against the use of delimited keywords and highly recommend today's industry standard for it; being the "hierarchical keywords" (also known as Lightroom keywords; though it has nothing to do with the Lightroom software itself). Using hierarchical keywords ensures the highest interoperability level with other metadata products."

Is Photoshop CS6 not properly reading the hierarchical keywords whereas Lightroom will?
Standard (flat) keywords are stored in dc:subject. Hierarchical keywords are stored in lr:hierarchicalSubject. So you should look in a different place. If you want your hierarchies reflected in the flat keywords then you should use delimited keywords. But as you also quoted: when looking at the most future proof solution then I can only vote against the use of delimited keywords. Delimited keywords were at some point introduced in different tools as a workaround to store hierarchies, as there was no (defacto) standard for this. Today there is and so I recommend to anyone going forward to stop using delimited keywords and switch the the more interoperable hierarchical keywords.
By "Apple Mail message" I simply mean a new email window (as if clicking the New Message button in Mail).
That's correct. To automate that, an application must invoke an "Apple event script" and that is not allowed for MacAppStore applications for security reasons. When an application is allowed to fire events, it can even launch terminal sessions and Apple doesn't like that for MAS applications.
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Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Hert
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Re: PS feature list vs. iView/Expression Media?

Post by Hert » 14 Aug 14 9:46

IDimager wrote:
By "Apple Mail message" I simply mean a new email window (as if clicking the New Message button in Mail).
That's correct. To automate that, an application must invoke an "Apple event script" and that is not allowed for MacAppStore applications for security reasons. When an application is allowed to fire events, it can even launch terminal sessions and Apple doesn't like that for MAS applications.
For the next update the option is added to sends out emails with the standard Apple Mail application. This will only be available in the website version.
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

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