Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

David Grundy
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Joined: 13 May 07 16:40
Location: Hong Kong

Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by David Grundy » 10 Aug 13 13:44

I have two monitors (one built in to the notebook, the other external. The (Windows 7) operating system already has a color profile assigned to each monitor. The two profiles are different, and are a result of a color calibration process for each screen separately.

In spite of reading and re-reading this topic I'm not clear.

1. Do I still need to assign a profile in PSu, even though Win7 already knows the correct profile for each screen?

2. If I need to assign profiles within PSu, is there a way to set two profiles? (It seems PSu does actually know which monitor the preview window opens on, even when the preview is "floating". It doesn't seem to notice immediately if I then move the preview window to the other screen, but it does notice next time the preview window opens.)

... David

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Mike Buckley » 10 Aug 13 15:38

I think a lot of the confusion would be immediately cleared up if the first color management setting was called "color space" instead of "input profile." That's because the term, "space," is so often used to refer to the information that is pertinent to image files, whether or not that color space is embedded in the image file at the time. The term, "profile," in this context is so often used to refer to the information that is pertinent to the monitor, whether it is the profile that was shipped with the monitor or whether the monitor has been custom calibrated to use an improved custom profile.

Moreover, people often use the term, "profile," as a verb in the context of a monitor (example: I profiled my monitor). People don't use the term as a verb in the context of an image file (nobody says that they profiled their image files even though doing so would not be inaccurate). The term, "space," is never used as a verb (nobody says, I spaced my image file).

I realize that the two terms, "color space" and "color profile," can be accurately used interchangeably but I also believe it would be more helpful in this case to use them separately.
1. Do I still need to assign a profile in PSu, even though Win7 already knows the correct profile for each screen?
Supreme does not allow for no profiles to be assigned. So, assign the profile that meets your needs if for no other reason than that the information used by the operating system might go awry. (I don't know whether the operating system or Supreme takes precedence.)
2. If I need to assign profiles within PSu, is there a way to set two profiles?
There is no way to set two profiles at a time or to configure the software to alternate between two profiles.

I should mention that my answers to the two questions are based on the version that is installed on my system, which is NOT the latest version.

David Grundy
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Joined: 13 May 07 16:40
Location: Hong Kong

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by David Grundy » 10 Aug 13 16:02

Thanks Mike

On a point of detail, PSu does allow me to turn "Display Color Management" off - it's a switch at the top of the Display Color Management sub-tab in the preferences.

PSu allows me to select either monitor profiles or colour spaces as the output profile. Is that just because the two kinds of files are stored with the same file extension?
Here's the list provided by PSu as output profiles:
PSu CM - Output profile pick list.jpg
PSu CM - Output profile pick list.jpg (49.02 KiB) Viewed 3293 times
This list seems to be exactly the list of all available ICC profiles on my system, other than those tagged as "printer".

At the bottom of the Display Color Management subtab is the option to "Use color management to generate thumbs (slows down)" which has me concerned. I had mean to mention this in the original post, and forgot. If the output profile is a display profile rather than a color space (actually I previously thought I understood the difference, but now I'm not so sure) then how does this make sense? Can a display profile be used as the colour space for a thumbnail or preview (which is after all just another image)? Does it mean that if the display profile is applied when generating the thumbnail, then somehow it will be applied twice (resulting in colour distortion) because the OS will then apply the display profile again to an image which is already "corrected" for the monitor's characteristics?
PSu Color - thumbnails option.PNG
PSu Color - thumbnails option.PNG (1.52 KiB) Viewed 3293 times
Anyway I have this option off at the moment.
... David

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Mike Buckley » 10 Aug 13 16:23

Thanks for bringing that off-on capability to my attention, David. Despite that it's on my system, I had not noticed it. I can't imagine any reason that anyone being so serious about their photography as to catalog it would disable color management.

I just now reviewed the hover tips being displayed with "input profile" and "output profile" and I think the tips are reversed. They are certainly reversed relative to the corresponding documentation relating to IDimager and they're reversed relative to my understanding of how the settings should be used. Not only that, but the hover tip that is pertinent to the output profile setting is called the target profile, adding yet more confusion.

I think everything pertaining to best practices is explained very well at dpBestFlow.org. The section pertaining to a discussion of color spaces and color profiles is at http://dpbestflow.org/color/color-space ... r-profiles

I probably won't be around any more today, as I have to prepare seven courses of an eight-course dinner. Yikes!
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 10 Aug 13 16:28, edited 2 times in total.

David Grundy
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by David Grundy » 10 Aug 13 16:26

Thanks Mike
... surfing on over ...

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Mike Buckley » 10 Aug 13 16:28

Sorry, David, but I edited my previous post after you posted. I don't remember what I changed but you might want to review that post again.

David Grundy
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by David Grundy » 10 Aug 13 16:40

BTW ... I hadn't seen those hover tips before. It turns out that the hover tip for the thumbnails always works, but the hover tips for the input profile and output profile only show when Display Colour Management is turned on. I hadn't realised I was missing anything.
Now that I have looked at them I thought the input profile and output profile tips were assigned to the correct points on the interface. Input profile Tip is almost the same as the text on the interface. Output profile Tip is indeed labelled as "Target profile" and says "this is where you select your own monitor or printer profile" and then some stuff about profiles and profiling. Is that what you see?

jstartin
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Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by jstartin » 10 Aug 13 17:35

Mike Buckley wrote:I just now reviewed the hover tips being displayed with "input profile" and "output profile" and I think the tips are reversed. They are certainly reversed relative to the corresponding documentation relating to IDimager and they're reversed relative to my understanding of how the settings should be used.
Perhaps you have a very old version. Hert changed the tips in Feb 2013 (following Mantis 0001358).
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

Mike Buckley
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Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Mike Buckley » 10 Aug 13 19:44

That would explain it, Jim. Glad to know that mistake has been corrected.

Mike Buckley
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Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Mike Buckley » 10 Aug 13 19:46

David Grundy wrote:Is that what you see?
I don't have the latest version installed so it's better that you get confirmation from someone who does.

Hert
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Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Hert » 10 Aug 13 19:47

Why working with such an old version Mike. There were so many great updates released after that.
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Mike Buckley » 10 Aug 13 19:50

I haven't begun using Supreme yet, Hert. I'm waiting at least for the capability to manually sort multiple thumbnails at a time.

Hert
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Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Hert » 10 Aug 13 20:43

Aha, I always thought that you were waiting for custom sorting. Your requirement became more specific :)
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Mike Buckley
Posts: 1194
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by Mike Buckley » 10 Aug 13 21:18

IDimager wrote:Aha, I always thought that you were waiting for custom sorting. Your requirement became more specific :)
One step at time. Your first step recently announced that custom sorting can be done with one thumbnail at a time is huge. Now I'm waiting for the next step. :D

David Grundy
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: Colour management setting (using two different monitors)

Post by David Grundy » 11 Aug 13 9:00

I'm thinking that this bit might have got forgotten in the banter:
David Grundy wrote:At the bottom of the Display Color Management subtab is the option to "Use color management to generate thumbs (slows down)" which has me concerned. [...] If the output profile is a display profile rather than a color space [...] then how does this make sense? Can a display profile be used as the colour space for a thumbnail or preview (which is after all just another image)? Does it mean that if the display profile is applied when generating the thumbnail, then somehow it will be applied twice (resulting in colour distortion) because the OS will then apply the display profile again to an image which is already "corrected" for the monitor's characteristics?
I'm still hoping to gain some understanding of this point!

Thanks
... David

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