can IDI and PSU be used together?

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fbungarz
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can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by fbungarz » 07 Feb 13 6:43

I know it is possible to use Lightroom and IDI, or PSU and Lightroom even though both are totally independent, incompatible databases.
Thus it is possible for example to import a JPG, NEF or DNG toLighroom, apply some changes, return to IDI and depending on the settings these changes will be recognized in IDI (used not to work well and still has some glitches, overall it is not perfect but possible).
So, if I make a copy of my IDI database, keep the original catalog and then convert the copy to PSU and do NOT change how images are stored on the harddrive, will PSU pick up changes made in IDI and vice versa?
This would be a bit of an ideal world really, because it would allow to take advantages of both programs:
(1) IDI has a decent file browser, PSU does not.
(2) IDI has powerful metadata customization, PSU does not.
(3) IDI has powerful version wizard and more flexible downloader.
(4) IDI can be installed on a server and simultaneously be used by several workstations and even has a webserver functionality built-in.
(4) PSU is 64 bit and handles large files and memory issues much better, higher performance for routine cataloging.
(5) Search is more flexible in PSU.
(6) PSU seems to have a more accessible, simplified user interface, is easier use and it is easier to teach...

I am sure there are many other possible advantages of combining both...
The question is, is there some specific reason why this would not work?

Cheers,
Frank

Hert
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by Hert » 07 Feb 13 12:05

I never recommend using two DAM systems. While I don't expect problems, it's asking for troubles in the long run.
fbungarz wrote:(1) IDI has a decent file browser, PSU does not.
What's the difference?
(2) IDI has powerful metadata customization, PSU does not.
What are you missing?
(3) IDI has powerful version wizard and more flexible downloader.
I agree about the version wizard. I disagree about the Downloader. What makes you conclude this?
(4) IDI can be installed on a server and simultaneously be used by several workstations and even has a webserver functionality built-in.
True. If this is a primary requirement for you then I recommend that you keep using IDimager.
The question is, is there some specific reason why this would not work?
It will work. And with the ICS schema you have the benefit for exchanging data between the two. But again, using two different DAM systems is asking for troubles in the long run.

Hert
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fbungarz
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by fbungarz » 07 Feb 13 14:51

Hi Hert,
thanks for the useful comments.
fbungarz wrote:(1) IDI has a decent file browser, PSU does not.
What's the difference?
Perhaps that has changed then? I remember discussions where people on forum complained that they were not able to use a file browser within PSU anymore and where you were adamant that PSU was a catalog software not a file browser. Back then I even commented that perhaps one possibility might be to allow PSU use plugins that provide such missing funtionality.
(2) IDI has powerful metadata customization, PSU does not.
What are you missing?
It is no longer possible to design and edit a XMP schema. Recently I came across a minor error in DwC XMP (was actually spotted by Phil Harvey in ExifTool). In IDI such mistakes can be easily amended. Or the need might arise in the future to amend, change, etc. parts of the DwC. If I understand correctly that is no longer possible in PSU.
(3) IDI has powerful version wizard and more flexible downloader.

I agree about the version wizard. I disagree about the Downloader. What makes you conclude this?

Again I have seen several users complaining that versioning is not as flexible in PSU as in IDI and that they have a lot of problems with it. I occasionally find the version wizard extremely useful, but typically use the downloader to generate versions in the first place. I am also worried that my renaming script (pretty complex; someone on the forum wrote it for me) might not work anymore in PSU. I will nee to try that out.

(4) IDI can be installed on a server and simultaneously be used by several workstations and even has a webserver functionality built-in.
True. If this is a primary requirement for you then I recommend that you keep using IDimager.
It is not (yet) a requirement, but at work we were planning to switch from single installations to one central database in the long run.
The question is, is there some specific reason why this would not work?
It will work. And with the ICS schema you have the benefit for exchanging data between the two. But again, using two different DAM systems is asking for troubles in the long run.
Good to know.

Thanks,
Frank

Ruhell
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by Ruhell » 07 Feb 13 14:59

Hert

Regarding file browser in PSU, at least on my installation PSU doesn't show new files in new sub folders that has been added outside PSU, V5 does.
Like, I've received a picture via mail / memory stick, then I save that file into a new "date" subfolder under "my pictures" - "2013" folders. Now, that new folder/file doesn't show up in PSU unless I've done a "verify folder" on "2013".
At early January that doesn't take too long but later in the year there might be 365 subfolders under "2013" with lots of photos in them, that might take some hours to verify.

I think it would have been great if PSU could "see" and add new subfolders like when I close and open the one step up folder, just like V5 does...
Of course, I might have missed something in the setup - which kind of happens quite often... ;)

Rune :)
Last edited by Ruhell on 07 Feb 13 15:36, edited 1 time in total.

Hert
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by Hert » 07 Feb 13 15:01

(2) IDI has powerful metadata customization, PSU does not.
What are you missing?
It is no longer possible to design and edit a XMP schema. Recently I came across a minor error in DwC XMP (was actually spotted by Phil Harvey in ExifTool). In IDI such mistakes can be easily amended. Or the need might arise in the future to amend, change, etc. parts of the DwC. If I understand correctly that is no longer possible in PSU.
That is correct. PSU offers a way to store custom metadata in XMP, simply by defining a name. Building custom schemas and editors as you could do in IDimager is not possible with PSU. Reason is simple: there was just one person I could think of that used it. A handful of other IDimager users also use custom metadata but at a simple level, the level that is also possible with PSU, but then so much easier (read usable).
(3) IDI has powerful version wizard and more flexible downloader.

I agree about the version wizard. I disagree about the Downloader. What makes you conclude this?

Again I have seen several users complaining that versioning is not as flexible in PSU as in IDI and that they have a lot of problems with it. I occasionally find the version wizard extremely useful, but typically use the downloader to generate versions in the first place. I am also worried that my renaming script (pretty complex; someone on the forum wrote it for me) might not work anymore in PSU. I will nee to try that out.
I was arguing your statement about the downloader. You stated that the Downloader is more powerful in IDI than it is in PSU and I deny that.

Hert
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Mike Buckley
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by Mike Buckley » 07 Feb 13 15:46

fbungarz wrote: I remember discussions where people on forum complained that they were not able to use a file browser within PSU anymore and where you were adamant that PSU was a catalog software not a file browser.
You may not be aware that the ability to copy and move physical files was added to Supreme.

Franz-Benjamin
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by Franz-Benjamin » 08 Feb 13 19:21

I am using custom XMP schemas, and I know at least to more persons! This is one of the features that makes me not using PSU.

fbungarz
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by fbungarz » 08 Feb 13 19:30

I am using custom XMP schemas, and I know at least two more persons! This is one of the features that makes me not using PSU.
I also know several people who use custom XMP... (but I guess opening up that can of worms with Hert again is quite beyond the point; I don't know, I really have tried to convince him that being able to create custom XMP is useful, he seems to think it is only esoteric people like me and you and not worthwhile...)

HOWEVER:
What Hert describes above for the Darwin Core XMP should work for any other Custom XMP just as well - IF it is indeed just a matter of copying the metadata profiles over to PSU (have you seen this: http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=22534 and this: http://picolo-photography.com/psu)

Frank

Hert
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by Hert » 08 Feb 13 19:30

Franz-Benjamin wrote:This is one of the features that makes me not using PSU.
They are supported in PSU. PSU can read any XMP and it can also read/write custom XMP. and if you have IDimagerV5 editor schema and definitions then your can use those in PSU as well.

he seems to think it is only esoteric people like me and you and not worthwhile
You can create custom XMP fields in PSU. Simple text fields that is. Not to the level of IDimager where you need to be a XMP specialist to be able to create custom fields. In PSU it's a matter of clicking the "New Input Field" in the Info panel. Name your field and that's it. They are stored in XMP in a dedicated schema.

Hert
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sanphotgn
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by sanphotgn » 10 Feb 13 20:44

You can add me to the short list of folks who uses the custom XMP features in IDI.

I haven't tried PSU yet.

I have read several entries in the forums regarding custom XMP fields and I am still slightly confused on custom XMP fields and PSU.

Must I copy my custom XMP DimagerV5 editor schema and definitions into PSU for the custom XMP fields to appear in PSU where one can read and write to the custom XMP fields?

Or will PSU see the custom XMP fields of any file automatically and display them for reading and writing?

Thank you,

Kevin
Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2602 (64 bits) (Windows)

Hert
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by Hert » 11 Feb 13 9:49

sanphotgn wrote:Must I copy my custom XMP DimagerV5 editor schema and definitions into PSU for the custom XMP fields to appear in PSU where one can read and write to the custom XMP fields?
If you are eager to maintain the custom schema definition that you used in IDI then yes, you'll need to copy over the idxmpdef and idxmpes files to the appdata\EditorSchemas folder of PSU.
Or will PSU see the custom XMP fields of any file automatically and display them for reading and writing?
In XMP Advanced all XMP is display, custom XMP included.

Hert
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sanphotgn
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by sanphotgn » 12 Feb 13 4:02

Hi Hert,

Thank you for this information.

Is the difference between using the custom schema definition and not using the custom schema definition the location and presentation of the custom XMP fields on the panel?

For example, the custom XMP fields would be in their own section(s) on the panel if I used the custom schema definition.

For example, the custom XMP fields would be in the XMP Advanced section on the panel if I didn't use the custom schema definition.

Again, thank you for helping me understand the options available.

Kevin
Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2602 (64 bits) (Windows)

touriga
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Re: can IDI and PSU be used together?

Post by touriga » 31 Aug 13 11:26

Add me to the custom XMP user list. :) And although my use is simple it definitely goes beyond just defining a new name.

BTW I came to this thread because this is exactly what I would like to do (use both) for two reasons:
1) give PSU a very thorough test run for a few months with the ability to revert fully to IDimager
2) use both long term as described in the original question. Use PSU as the primary app, but have the ability to do custom stuff occasionally in IDimager.

Regarding the second use I am a little confused by the wise adivce of "never using more than one DAM". Surely one of the fundamentals of this field is for your DAM to be able to detect and handle properly changes made outside the app. Indeed there are a bunch of options settings in IDimager as to how to handle changes outside IDimager.

Of course the ability to synchronise metadata between (i) file data, (Ii) the IDimager database and (iii) the PSU database would be amazing, but probably a tall order. Keeping both databases in sync with the file data would probably be sufficient for my purposes.

Rob

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