Label Assignment Panel Requests

mphillips
Posts: 1432
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by mphillips » 01 Nov 12 8:15

It's Plus 1 from me.

I often find the need to locate a Label in its context (where its exist in the tree - and if it doesn't exist then how should it be created and named).

It is laborious to swap out of the Assign Panel - into Catalog Tree - Find the Context - Create the Label / Add and existing one to Favourites / Label Sets - the go back and recreate the Set of images I was working with - and now label them with the new label - oh darn .. do I have a label for Jim - maybe - let me check - okay and now we start again with the swapping.

Even Just a Tree Browser in the Assign Panel would hep.

Regards

MikeP
Mike Phillips
http://www.mikeandmorag.co.za
D800, CNX2, Supreme

Hert
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Hert » 01 Nov 12 10:05

Mike, to check if you've got a label for Jim you can use the search box in the LAP, even the main search box.

Also, why leave the LAP to create a label. If you don't have a label for Jim then create it from within the LAP.
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

mphillips
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by mphillips » 01 Nov 12 14:24

Hi Hert
Mike, to check if you've got a label for Jim you can use the search box in the LAP, even the main search box.
That assumes I know what the label is "called" - for example I think I want to label the image "Bill" - but actually I previously created a label called "William"
But when I browse the People- Family - Everson - ?????? - I see that in fact I created it as William

Also the search is "slow" and cumbersome - its lists loads of spurious entries before suddenly zooming into the correct entry - it's fine when you KNOW exactly what the the catalog is called so its a "one time" search - but try finding a a couple of labels that you "think" exists searching three or four times and you will soon loose your patience :-)
Also, why leave the LAP to create a label. If you don't have a label for Jim then create it from within the LAP.
Because I am anal about having consistency in my Labelling Descriptions - So If I created a label under "Events - Birthdays - 2011 - Friends - Jim Jumbo " I want to be darn sure that I create the same label "Events - Birthdays - 2012 - Friends - Jim Jumbo" and not some other name (Jumbo Jim). It makes searching for the correct label much easier in the future.

Also Creating a label is a mission when you have to scroll up and down the very small (depth wise - I know you can drag to make the window wider - but you have to drag wider for EVERY new label you create) tree to find a "corresponding label" and then create your new label based on the existing "format" of the old label. Its just clumsy !

MikeP
Mike Phillips
http://www.mikeandmorag.co.za
D800, CNX2, Supreme

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Mike Buckley » 01 Nov 12 17:07

mphillips wrote:I am anal about having consistency in my Labelling Descriptions
Any effective cataloger should always attend to that detail and the software should make it as easy as possible to do that. This is not a frill or a customization that is being discussed. The issue being discussed is a matter of ease of use, which is intended to be Supreme's strength.

There are clearly a number of people who see this particular aspect of Supreme as a weakness when it comes to ease of use. I haven't tried using Supreme's LAP, but based on the consistent posts written about this weak link in the LAP, I'm not compelled to try using it until the improvement being discussed is implemented. I fear that that might also be the case for others.

Hert
Posts: 16002
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Hert » 01 Nov 12 18:29

Hi Mike,
mphillips wrote:That assumes I know what the label is "called" - for example I think I want to label the image "Bill" - but actually I previously created a label called "William"
But when I browse the People- Family - Everson - ?????? - I see that in fact I created it as William
If you define Bill as a Synonym for the Catalog Label William then even when you type Bill in the search box, William should pop up. The suggestions also show the full hierarchical path to the label, so there should be no doubt if you have the correct one or not,
Also the search is "slow" and cumbersome - its lists loads of spurious entries before suddenly zooming into the correct entry - it's fine when you KNOW exactly what the the catalog is called so its a "one time" search - but try finding a a couple of labels that you "think" exists searching three or four times and you will soon loose your patience :-)
Ah, so speed is an issue here. I tried it here and indeed, when you type the first letter the all results are returned that have that one letter. This is slow for a database with many labels and is also of little use. For the next update, I've implemented a change so that the search box will only start searching for 2 or more characters. That should make this a lot more usable.

Also, for the (relatively) few occasions that you need to check the hierarchy, then you can also expand the catalog explorer by clicking the arrow icons. That way the active selection is not changed while you can still access the hierarchy.
Because I am anal about having consistency in my Labelling Descriptions - So If I created a label under "Events - Birthdays - 2011 - Friends - Jim Jumbo " I want to be darn sure that I create the same label "Events - Birthdays - 2012 - Friends - Jim Jumbo" and not some other name (Jumbo Jim). It makes searching for the correct label much easier in the future.
Very true, though I don't see why you can't achieve this now. Also, when you create a new label you can select a parent and that gives you access to the full hierarchy.
Also Creating a label is a mission when you have to scroll up and down the very small (depth wise - I know you can drag to make the window wider - but you have to drag wider for EVERY new label you create) tree to find a "corresponding label" and then create your new label based on the existing "format" of the old label. Its just clumsy !
I've now made the size of that window persistent between invocations.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

mphillips
Posts: 1432
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Location: Parkwood,Johannesburg,South Africa

Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by mphillips » 01 Nov 12 21:08

Thanks Hert

And thanks for making those improvements

MikeP
Mike Phillips
http://www.mikeandmorag.co.za
D800, CNX2, Supreme

jstartin
Posts: 441
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Location: UK

Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by jstartin » 02 Nov 12 1:07

Hert

I am sure the changes you are planning will improve usability, and are welcome. But I have to say again that some people may have a more fundamental problem. I certainly do. Of course everything can be done through the LAP as it is currently implemented; I am not complaining that anything is impossible. Indeed for some sets of photographs it all works very well. But the "model" doesn't really match my way of thinking and, too often, that makes labelling awkward and frustrating.
Hert/IDimager wrote: If you define Bill as a Synonym for the Catalog Label William then even when you type Bill in the search box, William should pop up. The suggestions also show the full hierarchical path to the label, so there should be no doubt if you have the correct one or not,
Personal names are reasonably easy to deal with, but it is still tedious to search for and then apply names for each individual in a group shot if they are not in "recently used". Yes, one can create a label set or set labels as favourites, but from IDI I know that I find it easier and "nicer" to simply tick boxes next to the names I need in the appropriate section of a well-organised tree.

Synonyms are a great feature, but they have to be defined in advance. This is not too hard for people labels, but if I revisit (after a year or two) somewhere where I have photographed the landscape, trees, odd features etc before and catalogued them under some "names" that I have invented, then often I cannot, later, remember what the label was. Equally, when I created the label I would have had no idea what I might think of using as a label in the future, so could not have defined synonyms. I know I have photographs of the same objects in my collection and want to use the same labels. If I see my existing labels in the context of the catalogue tree then everything is recalled to mind and I can proceed confidently. So, I have to look in the catalogue to remind myself of the labels and then transfer my attention to the LAP to find them, again, so I can use them - I'm doing the job twice.

Going back to "Bill" (with just a small mount of exaggeration), I have several friends and relatives with the same name, have labelled photographs taken around the coastal promontary called Portland Bill, have "showing bill" as a label in my "birds" section of the catalogue, and some studies of the rusty bill of an old anchor. These are all easy enough to find and distinguish in the catalogue tree because I know how I have it arranged and where to look, but from an alphabetical list it is a nightmare. My brain processes diagrams and hierarchical trees much more quickly than lists. I doesn't matter how quickly you make the list appear, I will still be sitting staring at it for much too long in order to accomplish something I could do more quickly and more confidently from the tree. A choice of sorting orders might help, or a group by category facility, but not as much as a labelling tree.
Also, for the (relatively) few occasions that you need to check the hierarchy,
No, for me it is not relatively few occasions it is relatively many. Really!
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

Mike Buckley
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Mike Buckley » 02 Nov 12 1:25

Hert/IDimager wrote:
Also, for the (relatively) few occasions that you need to check the hierarchy,
jstartin wrote:No, for me it is not relatively few occasions it is relatively many. Really!
I agree with Jim. Supreme makes it possible to easily use the David Reicks Controlled Vocabulary, which I use. However, this situation being discussed comes up often when using the Vocabulary. To say that it is needed for relatively few occasions is not at all accurate based on my years of using it.

InTheFlow
Posts: 160
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by InTheFlow » 02 Nov 12 6:19

It looks like the tree request is important to a number of people. I'm certainly not against having one...especially after hearing all the ways it is useful. Should it be implemented, I would just like it to be easy to use. :wink: I can't say enough about how much I love the simplicity of using this program. It gets better with each update and Hert's team has been receptive to our quality feedback. You can't ask for more than that.

For those that like label trees...any suggestions for how to make it fit inside PS in an easy to use way? I don't understand it as well as you do but if you communicate it well, perhaps I could contribute a screenshot with ideas for how it could possibly look..?

I do have to give a bump to the larger font request though. 8) I'd love to recline in my chair as I label...right now I can't due to how closely I need to be to the screen to see them. The rest of the program's UI seems to have been designed to handle today's larger resolutions.

mphillips
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by mphillips » 02 Nov 12 7:39

Hi

Implementation - actually all I am looking for is the similar implementation to V5 - where is is a little button in the LAP that pops up a catalog tree.

That won't help Jim - I think.

Also I wonder if the Search Function would be more useful is the results were displayed group by First Level - e.g All the Events First - Then the People - Then the Places ?

MikeP
Mike Phillips
http://www.mikeandmorag.co.za
D800, CNX2, Supreme

Mike Buckley
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by Mike Buckley » 02 Nov 12 7:47

mphillips wrote: Also I wonder if the Search Function would be more useful is the results were displayed group by First Level - e.g All the Events First - Then the People - Then the Places ?
That might be helpful for the people who use those branches. However, the people such as myself who use the David Reicks Controlled Vocabulary might only use its branch. In that case, your idea wouldn't help.

mphillips
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Location: Parkwood,Johannesburg,South Africa

Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by mphillips » 02 Nov 12 7:57

Hi Hert
Also, for the (relatively) few occasions that you need to check the hierarchy, then you can also expand the catalog explorer by clicking the arrow icons. That way the active selection is not changed while you can still access the hierarchy.
Is this being implemented in the next release ?

At the moment the instance I change from Catalogue By Folder (or portfolio) for example to Catalogue by Category the Catalogue Viewer "switches" the thumbnails displayed to the the last recent View of images assign to the last catalog label viewed - in essence it Loses the focus that I have - so I still have to switch back and forth to assign labels ?

I think I am also one of those people who find it easier to view and locate Catalogue Label in a structured contextualised tree and branches type display - rather than a "jumbled" list of arbitrary (although I am sure the search result display order / ranking relevance is the result of a super clever algorithm) which I have to scan up and down to locate the entry I want . But that's just me :-)

Also you can't scroll down the list of labels - there is no scrolling bar - and if you use a cursor when you hit the last displayed label and carry on "nothing" happen - I'll report this in Mantis - If I haven't already.

Regards

MikeP

Added later - It Has Been already reported it in Mantis 0001171
Last edited by mphillips on 02 Nov 12 8:14, edited 2 times in total.
Mike Phillips
http://www.mikeandmorag.co.za
D800, CNX2, Supreme

mphillips
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by mphillips » 02 Nov 12 8:07

Hi Mike
In that case, your idea wouldn't help.
Ja - I know - Just trying to find some solution to speed up the time to "find" my required label in the "Find" results :-)

I suppose a good method for determining which way the brain best locates the catalog label is to look at how the user (ME) has organised their c:\my documents folders - the more "trees and branches" they have the more likely they are to want to find labels by hierarchy .

That's why I am finding the Window 8 - Search for an APP - frustrating/time wasting - as opposed to browsing my "carefully" structured - All Programs Tree :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: - So All I did is recreate "program groups" on my Metro Desktop (what is it suppose to be called?)

I think that it does show that there are so many different people with so many different ways of doing things efficiently for each person that you can't possibly have a "one size / solution fits all" approach - yes - on the minor elements you can channel (sounds better than force) users down a particular path - but for the core functions ??????

Have a great Friday

MikeP
Mike Phillips
http://www.mikeandmorag.co.za
D800, CNX2, Supreme

jstartin
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by jstartin » 02 Nov 12 10:01

InTheFlow wrote:For those that like label trees...any suggestions for how to make it fit inside PS in an easy to use way? I don't understand it as well as you do but if you communicate it well, perhaps I could contribute a screenshot with ideas for how it could possibly look..?
The top of the existing LAP would be given "tabs", looking very like the tabs that switch between Read settings and Write settings in Preferences/Synchronize settings. The tabs switch between pages.

One page would present the panel as it is now (or is soon going to be) - let's call that "Flat view". Another page would present the Tree view. There could be other pages, but these two would do for me.

There could be an adjacent widget accessing a setting for the default mode of the LAP when opened - Flat/Tree/Remember last use.

The Tree View would look very much like the By Categories view of the catalogue, but with the addition of check boxes (similar to the assignment mode of the catalogue explorer in IDI). The tree would expand/contract from arrowheads or by double clicking. None of the functions of the catalogue explorer would be duplicated, this panel would be solely for label assignment.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

jstartin
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Re: Label Assignment Panel Requests

Post by jstartin » 02 Nov 12 11:08

mphillips wrote:At the moment the instance I change from Catalogue By Folder (or portfolio) for example to Catalogue by Category the Catalogue Viewer "switches" the thumbnails displayed to the the last recent View of images assign to the last catalog label viewed - in essence it Loses the focus that I have - so I still have to switch back and forth to assign labels ?
It doesn't avoid the need to switch something, but I find putting images to be labelled in the Image Basket and leaving the catalogue view in By Category to be a good "trick".
I think I am also one of those people who find it easier to view and locate Catalogue Label in a structured contextualised tree and branches type display - rather than a "jumbled" list of arbitrary (although I am sure the search result display order / ranking relevance is the result of a super clever algorithm) which I have to scan up and down to locate the entry I want . But that's just me :-)
No, you are not alone! :wink:
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

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