custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Mike Buckley
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Mike Buckley » 12 Aug 13 21:28

IDimager wrote:The next update, build 146, will allow the ordering of series of selected thumbnails.
Assume I am displaying a collection of thumbnails in 10 rows with seven thumbnails in each row. Will I be able to select, as an example, two from the second row, one from the third row, four from the fourth and fifth rows and move them to a particular place in the first row?

Hert
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Hert » 12 Aug 13 22:01

In your sample you select 11 thumbs and you want to fit them in a row with seven thumb(?). Or you select 4 thumbs from the fourth and fifth row together.

Anyway, the answer is yes. Select them and move them to the first row; eg with Ctrl+Home. Of course the first 7 of your 11 thumbs will go to the first row, the last 4 to the start of the second row as you mention that you have 7 thumbs per row.
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Mike Buckley
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Mike Buckley » 12 Aug 13 23:09

That's terrific, Hert! That capability is my last known deal breaker to be resolved. It might be awhile before I get around to testing Supreme big-time, but this upcoming capability is excellent news.

Hert
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Hert » 13 Aug 13 7:51

Mike Buckley wrote:but this upcoming capability is excellent news.
Good to hear/read that Mike. Btw, this is already available in yesterday's release, build 1.9.1.146
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David Grundy
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by David Grundy » 14 Aug 13 16:11

I very much welcome the ability to sort using the keyboard. I'm by nature a keyboard user and usually I would use that method (although sometimes I might prefer a mouse drag).

However I do think that the majority of new users would be surprised by the behaviour when dragging a thumbnail, hence my suggestion last week. Although I didn't notice and + or - comments about that, I quite liked it so I have posted it as a feature request.

In the way of things I doubt this is high priority for the developers. Still, if you disagree with it it would probably be worth saying so either here or on Mantis.

... David

Hert
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Hert » 14 Aug 13 17:04

Drag/Drop thumbnails is used for Versioning. That is how it is implemented throughout the application. That is consistent.
Giving double meaning to drag/drop thumbnails, which also depends on the context of the application (ONLY when you are in Portfolio collections) is not something I favor. I do welcome the feature request in Mantis.
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Mike Buckley
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Mike Buckley » 14 Aug 13 23:30

If dragging and dropping thumbnails to change the order would behave in Supreme as it behaves in IDimager, I could make a really strong case that using the keyboard is a lot faster and with intuitively more predictable results.

David Grundy
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by David Grundy » 17 Aug 13 3:43

IDimager wrote:Drag/Drop thumbnails is used for Versioning. That is how it is implemented throughout the application. That is consistent.
Giving double meaning to drag/drop thumbnails, which also depends on the context of the application (ONLY when you are in Portfolio collections) is not something I favor. I do welcome the feature request in Mantis.
1. It's already the case that sorting by keystroke only works in some situations. I personally think it's intuitive if dragging to sort works exactly in those same situations.

2. I also think it's very easy to understand that dropping onto another thumbnail does something different from dropping between thumbnails, especially if there is sufficient visual feedback that these are two different actions. In fact, to me it's intuitive that these should produce different outcomes.

3. PSu already has visual indications when moving the mouse to different points on the screen. When dragging, the mouse pointer shows a "forbidden" icon if the mouse isn't in a position where dropping makes sense. Such visual clues work well and because they appear in context they make it easy to understand what's happening and do not confuse anyone. In the same way, using a visual cue to show when versioning will happen and when sorting will happen will not result in any confusion and will actually make it easier to know what is happening.

4. The suggestion would prevent lots of versioning accidents during the time when new users are not yet very familiar with the system, while not causing the slightest inconvenience to experienced users.

I'm don't intend to push this further; I don't personally need the drag to sort although I would use it if it were available. But the reason I have argued this far is just that I feel the change would make the program easier to learn, avoiding surprises, and (other than developers' time, which I do recognise is important) I don't see that there is any downside to the suggestion.

... David

PS ... I agree with the an earlier comment that the versioning outcome is likely to be a surprise for a new user. And I think that will be a bad experience. So even if you don't like the suggestion to use dragging for both versioning and (where appropriate) for sorting, I would still suggest providing a much stronger visual clue that dragging will result in versioning rather than sorting.

stevehughes
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by stevehughes » 17 Aug 13 6:08

IDimager wrote:
Mike Buckley wrote:but this upcoming capability is excellent news.
Good to hear/read that Mike. Btw, this is already available in yesterday's release, build 1.9.1.146
This is great. Works well for me. Thank you.

Is the manual sort order available as a batch variable ? IDI had a method for doing a redate with cumulative shift. PSU doesn't offer cumulative shift (though I don't understand why not) but I figure it could be done through a script if the sort position of each image was available.

Steve

Hert
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Hert » 17 Aug 13 11:59

Steve,
Is the manual sort order available as a batch variable ? IDI had a method for doing a redate with cumulative shift. PSU doesn't offer cumulative shift (though I don't understand why not) but I figure it could be done through a script if the sort position of each image was available.
The Batcher works with the order that you feed it. So if you select a series of thumbs then they will be processed in that exact same order.
If you explain what you used to use the cumulative shifting for then I'm confident we can find alternatives.

Hert
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stevehughes
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by stevehughes » 18 Aug 13 6:57

Thanks Hert,

I raised this in January here: http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=22512

To recap, when I scan a bulk number of slides from family history, I sort them into a sensible order in a portfolio. I want to ensure that they will always sort correctly both by filename and by date when distributed to other family members. So I use the redate to firstly set all images to the same date/time in roughly the correct period e.g. 1:00 AM 1st August 1990, then I run a cumulative shift so that each image is shifted 1 minute from its predecessor. Then I run a rename function to generate filenames based on the new date/time.

Now that we can manually sort in PSU I'm half-way to being able to leave IDI (this is the only function I still need it for). Can you suggest a way to do the sequential redating in PSU ?

Steve.

Hert
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Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Hert » 18 Aug 13 9:22

Thank you Steve. Here is a rename rule that you can use on a series of selected thumbs that generates file names based on their active order in the collection (eg how you sorted them)

Code: Select all

%ImageNumber{length=3}-%FileName.%FileExtension
Of course, there may be additional rename requirements that you have but it's about the %ImageNumber macro here to generate a sequence number that represents the (current) order in the collection.
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stevehughes
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by stevehughes » 18 Aug 13 11:30

Thanks Hert. But it's not the renaming I have an issue with. That bit's easy. Its the sequential re-dating that I'm struggling with. Any insights on that ? I'm looking for some way I can work %ImageNumber into an expression that results in a date/time stamp.

Hert
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Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by Hert » 18 Aug 13 11:53

You mentioned in that other topic that you set an estimated date to your scanned images. I do understand that part, as that is the information "to your best knowledge". What I don't understand is why you (anyone!!) would ever need an offset date. You there mentioned that you used that "feature" to be able to rename the files to represent your custom sort order. What I'm trying to explain is that renaming with the %ImmageNumber gives you the exact same result.

The reason why "cumulative dating" was removed is because it generates fictive dates and generating erroneous information may never be part of a serious information management tool. While I do understand that you can use such a fictive date to achieve other things (like you use it for naming in IDI), it is always a work-around...and there will always be other ways to achieve the exact same thing.

Basically my point comes down to this: Ask yourself what you try to achieve and don't hold on to "I'm used to do it like this". It's the result that matters. If your goal is to get your file names to represent the order of the manual sort then you don't need some offset dating for that.

Hert

PS. Sure you can use a script to generate offset dates, but again, is that what you need or is that just something you do to achieve some other result.
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stevehughes
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: custom order of thumbnails in a portfolio

Post by stevehughes » 18 Aug 13 12:15

Hert, Regardless of the original post, I thought my intent as recapped above was clear:

"I want to ensure that they will always sort correctly both by filename and by date when distributed to other family members."

The capture dates of a set of scanned slides mean nothing. They bear no resemblance to the original photo date, and often are not even in the correct sequence. Some photo apps sort by filename, and others sort by date. Therefore I want both date and filename to follow my defined sequence.

I agree that I want to set fictitious dates. I want to set dates that (a) approximate the date when the images were originally taken but more importantly (b) I want the dates to be in a sequence that follows my defined sequence. I don't want a bunch of old slides from the 80's and '90s to be buried in amongst digital photos from 2013 just because that's when I scanned them.

I could manually redate every one of thousands of scanned images but I may not live long enough to complete the project. Therefore I'm looking for an automated way to assign vaguely sensible dates. I don't care whether it's the same method I used with IDI. Any method that achieves my original intent will do.

Am I making sense ?

Steve.

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