Photo Supreme wins my vote

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tstoddard
Posts: 578
Joined: 07 Sep 12 12:51

Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by tstoddard » 15 Oct 12 1:45

After 26 days working with the trial version of Photo Supreme, I purchased a license. I would have done it sooner but I wanted to make sure that there wasn't something better for my purposes. I hope that sharing my perspective will be helpful to some of the others who are coming to this forum to try to figure out what they want to do now the IDI is no longer available.

I joined this forum within days of Hert's announcement that he had discontinued IDI. I had downloaded the IDI trial a week or two before and came to this forum with questions about how to do things in IDI. When I learned that IDI was being discontinued I immediately downloaded Photo Supreme and began using it instead of IDI. My original impression matched that of many of the IDI users in this forum and I was extremely disappointed with PSU when comparing it to IDI.

In the interest of providing some reference, I need to say that I had never used any other DAM software. I had recently purchased a new DSLR and realized that I already had over 15,000 images on my PC. All of my previous images were taken with various point and shoot cameras and were either in jpg or tiff formats. My DSLR has the ability to save in jpg, nef, and nef + jpeg. I couldn't decide what format to save my photos in so I turned to the internet to find out what others recommended. One thing led to another and I found myself reading about workflows and cataloging. I work with databases regularly so the idea of cataloging my images immediately captured my attention. Now all I had to do was select software that could enable me to do it.

I've read many comments here from people expressing the sentiment that since IDI had been discontinued that they would have to look elsewhere for software. Those comments led me to continue looking for options, thinking that there must be other comparable options. My conclusion is that there are very few, if any, other programs that do everything PSU does. As a newbie, it was fairly easy for me to remove IDI from the field of potential competitors. Once I had done that, I found that PSU is head and shoulders ahead of most other programs. There are some other programs that do some things better than PSU but none that do everything it does. Perhaps the closest rival is Lightroom, which does a lot of great things, including some things that PSU doesn't do, but it still lacks some of the functionality that I find valuable and that PSU does very well, plus it costs almost twice as much. IMatch may be able to do just about everything PSU does but by the time I downloaded and installed it and then scanned the quick start guide, I realized that it would be a steep learning curve and that I'd probably have to start scripting to do some of the things I wanted to do. Also, my initial impression of its interface was not good. In fairness, if I had started with it, I might not have found it so objectionable but I was beginning to get weary of trying to learn new programs.

The functionality that is important to me includes:
  • Robust subfolder creation and naming
    Robust file renaming
    Hierarchical keywords
    The ability to map keywords to metadata fields (even multiple metadata fields)
    The capability for iteratively applying parent label metadata mapping
    The ability to create label sets and then use them in the assignment process, which helps to make labeling images much faster
    The image bucket
    Portfolios and Collections (or some way of grouping sets of images)
    The ability to keep different versions of the same image together
    The ability to write delimited keywords (I'm not sure if I want to do this but I like knowing that I can if I find that it will help me)
    An active forum
From this list you should be able to infer that modifying my images is not a priority for me. I'm much more interested in cataloging them so that I know what images I have and I can find them quickly. Cataloging 15,000 images that have been saved over the past 10 years is a tedious task. Perhaps after I've finished doing that, I will spend more time trying to modify the images that I want to use for various purposes. I realize that others here have very different needs and may need functionality that PSU doesn't have, but if they do what I've done, they will realize that finding another program that does what they need, without sacrificing some of what PSU offers, will be difficult.

I have downloaded and/or tried:
  • Picasa
    Windows Photo Gallery
    ViewNX
    Lightroom
    Zoner Photo Studio
    iMatch
    PicaJet
    XnView
    Irfanvien
    ACDSee
    FastStone Image Viewer
    Several others that I've already forgotten
There may be some expensive professional strength applications available, but I'm not a professional so I didn't try to hard to find those.

I should add that I do have some concerns about what will happen in the future. Hert could get hit by a bus tomorrow and then what would we do? (Sorry Hert, I don't want to see that happen but you must understand what I mean). These concerns are somewhat offset by the fact that Photo Supreme offers functionality that makes it pretty easy to prepare my image files to be moved to a different platform. That portability means that I'm not stuck with Photo Supreme if something happens that convinces me to change.

I hope my ramblings are helpful to some of the members here. Hert has taken a lot of heat for his decisions and the way he communicated them. I share some of those sentiments, but in the end, I want the best value in image cataloging software and my 40 days of searching have convinced me that Photo Supreme is my best option.
Tom Stoddard

fbungarz
Posts: 1553
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by fbungarz » 15 Oct 12 5:48

Hi everyone,
it seems ironic, but I actually much appreciate this post. I am among those who are very disappointed by the recent decision to discontinue IDI and was and still am fairly upset how all this was communicated. Still, reading many of the complaints and responses here on the forum I begin to understand the logic behind that decision even if I do not share it. What I find most disturbing is that many IDI users have spent huge amount of time and effort for several years to develop and adapt their workflow around the functionality an rich feature sets that IDI had to offer and are now understandably furious that that suite of functionality suddenly no longer is at their disposal. Yes, IDI continues to do its job, but at some point will be simply suffer the fate of any software being discontinued. I actually am one of those guys who had to just install virtual XP on my 64-bit machine only to support a 20 year old 16-bit program that I need to run, but still, I don't see myself years down the road still using IDI in a similar fashion.
So what is the alternative for those of us who are desperate for some functions that Supreme simple no longer offers?
Move to other programs? Fair enough, but like so many I have tested quite a bunch and one feature that now Supreme does no longer offer is present in that other program, unfortunately though that other program does not offer yet another one, etc. etc. Fact is, it is most unlikely to yet find a perfect fit for what was IDI. Lightroom too basic in database capabilities. iMatch just as complex, even perhaps more flexible, but also much more technical, yet another very steep learning curve. Version 5 on the horizon, but when will it be released? Daminion - lots of promise, little there yet...

Someone suggested, why not a subscription model to keep IDI alive, but that poll had so few contributors that it is unlikely to have a chance. That got me thinking: any chance for plugins? Would it be possible that Photo Supreme supports plugin development for specific purposes. Someone wants a Version Detection Wizard, any chance for a plugin offered or even sold commercially as a Photo Supreme plugin through the Resource Repository? I always thought that IDI Resource repository was great - so many users contributing fantastic scripts, for some I would even have paid!
Now, IDI was more expensive than Photo Supreme. That shows there is some room for the advanced user and even some potential revenue stream? I would happily pay an extra price for a few plugins that give me back those extra features that were removed...

Any chance??? And please, I do not again wan to hear: "Supreme is a different product". That may be as it is, but Adobe Photoshop also does support plugins. Some of those are pretty stupid, because people pay $1000 for Photoshop and then by a 3300 plugin to avoid having to learn how to apply a sharpening filter!? How stupid is that, one might argue. So, if Someone would like to by a file manager plugin for Photo Supreme even if Hert thinks it is nonsense - so what? Let 'em buy it. Let them pay for it...

Any chance?

Frank

gcoupe
Posts: 244
Joined: 16 Mar 05 19:29
Location: Heelweg, The Netherlands

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by gcoupe » 15 Oct 12 11:31

Tom, thanks for your post. They are not "ramblings", but some very good points, that resonate with me and my situation.

I've been using IDI for longer, for almost six years, but, like you, I came to it after trying a long list of alternatives. As a long-term user, I was really sideswiped by the sudden announcement that IDI would forthwith be discontinued, but I tried PSU to see if would be a replacement. After all, there are large swathes of IDI's capabilities that I never use.

I've found that, for my usage patterns, PSU is perfectly adequate, so I've also purchased a license. There was a learning curve, but PSU is sufficiently close to IDI to lessen the slope of the curve considerably. It's clear that PSU is still evolving, and Hert is responsive in both fixing bugs and introducing improvements.

You wrote:
Photo Supreme offers functionality that makes it pretty easy to prepare my image files to be moved to a different platform. That portability means that I'm not stuck with Photo Supreme if something happens that convinces me to change.
I'll echo that. That was one of the factors that made me choose IDI to begin with, and I have successfully moved across my Catalog to PSU simply by using the fact that I store my metadata in my images. If ever I need to move again, it will be to a platform that is as metadata-aware as the IDimager products.

Hopefully, that situation will not arise again for some time to come...
Geoff Coupe
--------------
Photo Supreme /Windows 10 Pro 64 bits + Windows Home Server 2011 = DAM

Hert
Posts: 5934
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by Hert » 15 Oct 12 12:42

Hi Tom,

Thank you for your very constructive contribution.
tstoddard wrote:Hert could get hit by a bus tomorrow and then what would we do? (Sorry Hert, I don't want to see that happen but you must understand what I mean).
While I am the only one who post here, rest assured that I am not the only one in this company. Currently there are 3 people in the development team, and I am just the front-man. When I get hit by "your" bus then our products will continue.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

george
Posts: 213
Joined: 24 Jun 07 15:57
Location: USA

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by george » 15 Oct 12 16:16

Hi Tom,

I just want to join Frank, Geoff and Hert to say I found your post very constructive and instructive. I used a number of IDI features not present in PSU, but maybe I'll rethink my workflow. PSU has a great performance advantage over IDI, so maybe that can partially compensate for having to do some things in other programs that I currently do in IDI.
George

fbungarz
Posts: 1553
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by fbungarz » 15 Oct 12 17:53

Fair enough, but I had of course hoped for some response addressing the possibility to open up Supreme fro plugins that would allow it to be "upgraded" for advanced users...!?
Hert: I can understand if you are p***d with my overall negative feedback recently, still, frustrations among former IDI users are understandable given all this was communicated. So, again: any chance for my "plugin" idea. From what I red in other posts there are ironically even remnant of former IDI functionality burried in Supreme, for example some of the functionality of versioning was originally not intended to work as it does now and perhaps there are even chances to get these buried features re-activated for a select group of the users willing to pay for a little bit extra?

Anything? I'd rather like to know now if there is reason to keep up my hopes or if I better abandon ship...

Frank

weidmic
moderator
Posts: 834
Joined: 04 Dec 06 22:21

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by weidmic » 15 Oct 12 18:06

Frank,
Fair enough, but I had of course hoped for some response addressing the possibility to open up Supreme fro plugins that would allow it to be "upgraded"
Not sure what's all possible with the scripting engine in PSU, but I guess there is a lot possible what we are wishing for.
A official "API" for programmers would be much better for sure!

I have asked several times for this capability but Hert never responded in a positive way. OK to be fair this was of course for IDimager V4/V5 and not for PSU!
Make it a feature request and put it in mantis :wink:
You have my vote!

Cheers,
Michael
PSUServer 5.x, PostgreSQL 10.x
My homepage http://www.michaelweidner.com
PSU Tips and Tricks http://www.michaelweidner.com/WP/psu/

andy@damroundup.com
Posts: 109
Joined: 13 Apr 08 19:54
Location: Boston, MA USA

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by andy@damroundup.com » 15 Oct 12 18:18

I have always been a huge champion for an "easier" way for me to get my "hooks" into the code behind Idimager... the Idi scripter was always a very powerful tool.. but the documentation and lack of API made is nearly impossible to understand when to use Method/function A over B and how to get the best computation cycle from the code. The scripts I was able to create were all based on existing examples and the kind help of Dirk, Hert and others... In the end, I had to give up though because the CHM file just didn't provide enough of the "why/when" that I needed... it only provided the "what".. and I even wanted more "what"!

I do hope that Supreme can be opened up a bit more to allow others to create some tools to fill in areas with functions that I feel are vital to a DAM product (ie: GPS). I'm all on board to help out in anyway I can!

- Andy.
Check out our detailed DAM reviews at http://www.DAMRoundup.com
Custom designed books for publication or personal enjoyment - http://www.JingotheCat.com

fbungarz
Posts: 1553
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by fbungarz » 15 Oct 12 19:20

Make it a feature request and put it in mantis :wink:
Mantis, what mantis? Don't know what you are talking about. Looks like I am not part of the Illuminati here.
Don't think I am part of that inner circle...

:wink:
Frank

weidmic
moderator
Posts: 834
Joined: 04 Dec 06 22:21

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by weidmic » 15 Oct 12 19:33

Frank,

Mantis is a bug reporting system but not only to report bugs. This may and should be used for FR too!
http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=18353

You need to create an account, then PM Hert and tell him that you created a account and the username you used and then you can go ahead...

HTH
Michael

BTW: If you want to discuss a FR that has been made in mantis needs to be done in the forum :)
PSUServer 5.x, PostgreSQL 10.x
My homepage http://www.michaelweidner.com
PSU Tips and Tricks http://www.michaelweidner.com/WP/psu/

Lars
Posts: 65
Joined: 13 Nov 09 6:44
Location: EU

Re: Photo Supreme wins my vote

Post by Lars » 17 Oct 12 6:43

Tom Stoddard, thanks for sharing your observations - very useful.

Just want to add one thing that I find important: Is it possible to backup the catalog in reasonable time over the Internet and get it back to other computers in reasonable time (minutes).

That's actually possible in Photo Supreme because two databases are used : One for the catalog and one for the thumbnails+preview. The catalog database is relatively small and compress very well (about 4 times).

Other programmes e.g. Imatch and Media Pro stores everything in one BIG database which can hardly be compressed. You may use sector based incremental backup to make backup of small changes in the database, even over the internet (cloudbased service), but making the first backup and getting a full database back over the Internet is pretty awful (=many hours).
W7/64bit, IDimager V5 ProSL

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