Catalog state - Stacking

jstartin
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Catalog state - Stacking

Post by jstartin » 09 Oct 12 11:44

The "By Catalog State" view has items for "Stacked" and "Not stacked". Is there a way of creating stacks in PSU, or is this a redundant item in "States"?
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

freudenthaler
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by freudenthaler » 10 Oct 12 11:29

Stacking - aka versioning in PSU - is simply done by dragging & dropping a foto over another one. For undoing a stack / version set see http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=20729
Robert | glass stories | Fuji X | LR Classic CC | C1 | PSU 4+5 | Win 10/64 on i9-9940X |

tstoddard
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by tstoddard » 10 Oct 12 11:45

Robert,

In the context or jstartin's question, I'd say that stacking does not mean the same thing as versioning. If you display your catalog "By Catalog State", you are given many options to choose from. Two of those options are "Version Sets" and "Not in Version Sets". Right below those options are "Stacked" and "Not Stacked". Clearly, stacked does not mean the same thing as being in a version set. If so, then those options would be redundant. I'm curious if those options are there in anticipation of stacking as a future feature or if they were not meant to be there at all.

I'm not sure how to add screen shots to these messages or I would do so. Sorry!
Tom Stoddard

jstartin
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by jstartin » 10 Oct 12 13:46

tstoddard wrote:Robert,
In the context or jstartin's question, I'd say that stacking does not mean the same thing as versioning.
Quite so. Quoting the IDI manual for version 4.

"Versioning or Stacking?
One question that pops up very often is what makes versioning and stacking different. A very
understandable question because the two concepts seem much alike and are easily confused.
However, they are completely different and also behave different.
Versioning is used to collect similar images together in a version set. Stacking on the other hand is
intended to collect images for a specific purpose. Stacking is a mechanism where you can keep a
bunch of images together which doesn't have to be derivatives of the same image. A simple example
is a panorama shot which is composed of several different images. Another example is a retouched
image that is designed based on different images. One more example is a burst shoot. Each of the
images in a stack have their own characteristics (labels, properties, ratings, ...) but still form a logical
set with other images. Tend to think of stacks as lightweight collections, but with the ability to collapse
a stack into a single thumb
So you use versioning to maintain copies or derivatives (cropped/sized/converted/...) of the same
image and you use stacking to group a set of images together (like a panorama photo that is made up
from different images, or a collage with several images)."
Last edited by jstartin on 28 Oct 12 17:21, edited 1 time in total.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

Mike Buckley
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by Mike Buckley » 10 Oct 12 13:53

Upload to somewhere on the internet so there is a url, then hit the Img button and enter the url between the [img]and[/img] tags.
Alternatively, click the "Upload attachment" tab and upload directly from your computer with no need to first upload it to the Internet.

jstartin
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by jstartin » 10 Oct 12 14:20

Mike Buckley wrote:
Upload to somewhere on the internet so there is a url, then hit the Img button and enter the url between the [img]and[/img] tags.
Alternatively, click the "Upload attachment" tab and upload directly from your computer with no need to first upload it to the Internet.
Thanks Mike, I hadn't noticed that tab. I must need a bigger screen, or bigger eyes :wink:
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

gcoupe
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by gcoupe » 10 Oct 12 14:42

Alright, so there is a difference between "Versioning" and "Stacking". And the Help file tells me how to do Versioning.

But how do I Stack images? The Help file is silent on this. In IDI, I would select the images and right-click to get the Stack command. There's no such command in PSU...
Geoff Coupe
--------------
Photo Supreme /Windows 10 Pro 64 bits + Windows Home Server 2011 = DAM

weidmic
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by weidmic » 10 Oct 12 15:25

Not sure, but as far as I know, there is no way to stack images yet in PSU.
Compatibility with IDI V5 might be the reason for still showing up in PSU... ??

Cheers,
Michael
PSUServer 5.x, PostgreSQL 10.x
My homepage http://www.michaelweidner.com
PSU Tips and Tricks http://www.michaelweidner.com/WP/psu/

freudenthaler
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by freudenthaler » 10 Oct 12 20:31

Tom, Mike, Geoff, Michael,

your're all right, I have not noticed this until now - thanks for pointing me in this direction. Seen in the context as described by the v4 manual there is a difference. And neither of us knows how to deal with it :-)
Although I have to confess that I'm not quite happy with this distinction, because the concept of versions seem to be a more generic one which also can deal with images part of a panorama - just imagine a version set called panorama, or a version set called ColorVariations (for pics of the same subject, but different development) , or a version set named SubjectVariation (for pictures showing the same object from slightly different positions).

Anyone coming up with an example for stacking with can't be squeezed into version sets?

Hert, can you please enlighten us regarding the concept of stacking? An upcoming feature?
Robert | glass stories | Fuji X | LR Classic CC | C1 | PSU 4+5 | Win 10/64 on i9-9940X |

Hert
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by Hert » 10 Oct 12 20:35

freudenthaler wrote:Hert, can you please enlighten us regarding the concept of stacking? An upcoming feature?
Stacking is not in PSU. If enough people request it then it shall be added.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

freudenthaler
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by freudenthaler » 10 Oct 12 20:53

Hert/IDimager wrote: Stacking is not in PSU. If enough people request it then it shall be added.
Hert, so why is it then in PSU in the CatalogState listed?
Robert | glass stories | Fuji X | LR Classic CC | C1 | PSU 4+5 | Win 10/64 on i9-9940X |

Hert
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by Hert » 10 Oct 12 21:03

Because it shouldn't have been there to begin with.

Hert
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

jstartin
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by jstartin » 10 Oct 12 21:05

freudenthaler wrote: the concept of versions seem to be a more generic one which also can deal with images part of a panorama - just imagine a version set called panorama, or a version set called ColorVariations (for pics of the same subject, but different development) , or a version set named SubjectVariation (for pictures showing the same object from slightly different positions).
Anyone coming up with an example for stacking with can't be squeezed into version sets?
Of course the user can put associated images together as "versions" whatever the nature of the association (or even images with no connection at all), but the distinction between versions and stacks in the Pro version of IDI, which allowed both, was clear. "Versions" for different processing options (raw+jpeg; uncropped/cropped, colour/B&W ....) and "stacks" for related, but distinct, shots (burst, panorama pieces, anything you like...). I would say, as a native English speaker, that the stacking concept is more generic and versioning a more specific one. The big question though is: would implementing both concepts in PSU be a benefit to the intended type of user, or an unhelpful complication?
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

jstartin
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by jstartin » 10 Oct 12 21:08

Hert/IDimager wrote:Because it shouldn't have been there to begin with.

Hert
Thanks, Hert, for the answer.
Jim (Photo Supreme: AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 Accelerated Processor 3.2 GHz; internal AMD Radeon™ HD7560D; 4GB DDR3 SDRAM; Win10x64)

tstoddard
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Re: Catalog state - Stacking

Post by tstoddard » 10 Oct 12 23:07

I think an important distinction has to do with whether or not one image is a derivative of another. If it is, then it's a version, if not then they should be kept together in a stack if they are related. One distinction would be that a version would have the same EXIF metadata, Images in a stack wouldn't. Another big difference is that the same image can be in many different stacks but cannot be in more than one version set.

An example I can think of is that we have a collection of before and after photos of projects that we've done. I work for a home improvement company and one of the things we do is window replacement. We might take original photos of a specific window before we've replaced it and another after we've replaced it. We may then crop those images separately and then make a couple of versions in different sizes for different purposes. We would do that with the before picture and then with the after picture. We would want to keep all of those versions together in version sets. We might then take one of the versions from each version set and post them to facebook. We might then take two larger versions and put them on our website. We might even use yet another version of each of those images in a marketing brochure. We might also want to use one of the versions of the one of the after images on a webpage featuring 4 other images of other windows of that style. Each set of images would be put into a different stack to help us keep them together. In this case we might end up with the same image in more than one stack. The way that PSU currently works is that a file can't be part of more than one version set. I think that's probably a good idea. The way stacking works in Lightroom, an image can be in any number of different stacks.

I'm not familiar with how stacking and versions interact in IDI so I'm not sure what happens when you start to put versions of images in stacks. Does the whole version set end up in the stack or can you put an individual version in a stack by itself and still have it as a member of a version set? I would hope the latter is the case.

In any case, I think the distinction between version sets and stacks is significant and should be maintained. I would think that if a collection would be a better tool to substitute for a stack than a version set would be if stacking is not available.
Tom Stoddard

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