how do you "just simply rename" an image?

andrew.heard
Posts: 187
Joined: 16 Jun 10 0:36

how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by andrew.heard » 06 Oct 12 9:38

Say I have file X.JPG, I want to rename to Y.JPG, in Windows Explorer you select the file, press F2, edit the existing name, Enter, simple, or context menu > Rename, or main menu > File > Rename.

What is the equivalent workflow for renaming a cataloged file in PS? ctrl+shift+R (rename) doesn't appear to be what I want (or is way too complex for what I want), F2 doesn't work, the File Name in the Info panel is read-only, I can double-click or press Enter in "By Folder" view & it gives the impression I can change the name, but it actually doesn't do anything, surely it shouldn't be that hard?

What I ended up doing was renaming it in Windows Explorer then performing "Verify Folder" in "By Folder" view.

If PS is going to appeal to a wider audience surely these common tasks need to be dead easy?

Mike Buckley
Posts: 3965
Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by Mike Buckley » 06 Oct 12 10:22

You could use the Batcher's Rename File command. However, I suspect that you will find that to be more complex than you want considering that using Ctrl+Shift+F2 is too complex for you.

I haven't begun using Supreme but I wonder if the fact that F2 doesn't work isn't a very good idea. When using F2 in the previous two versions of IDimager, if you accidentally renamed a file to be the same as another file stored in the same physical file folder, one of the two files would then be lost. Hert has explained that that won't happen when using Supreme's renaming dialog. Instead, the filename of the newly renamed file will be automatically appended to create a unique filename.

gcoupe
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Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by gcoupe » 06 Oct 12 10:33

I think that this inability to easily rename an image is yet another consequence of the decision to remove File Manager capabilities from PSU.

While the decision was probably made to streamline the capabilities of PSU over IDI (which is a Swiss Army knife on steroids), I wonder if removing file management capabilities isn't a step too far.

I note that rivals such as Windows Photo Gallery and Picasa have retained the file management capabilities within their environments, and it certainly feels more natural than having to switch to the Windows Explorer, and then having to do a Verify Folder to bring the changes back into PSU's catalog.
Geoff Coupe
--------------
Photo Supreme /Windows 10 Pro 64 bits + Windows Home Server 2011 = DAM

Luke_215
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Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by Luke_215 » 06 Oct 12 16:55

I may have missed a meeting here, but if you just double click on the file name under the thumbnail it opens up for editing. Seems to work on mine.

gcoupe
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Location: Heelweg, The Netherlands

Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by gcoupe » 06 Oct 12 17:11

Luke_215 wrote:I may have missed a meeting here, but if you just double click on the file name under the thumbnail it opens up for editing. Seems to work on mine.
So it does!

I can also drag and drop images between folders. Er, did it always do this?
Geoff Coupe
--------------
Photo Supreme /Windows 10 Pro 64 bits + Windows Home Server 2011 = DAM

andrew.heard
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Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by andrew.heard » 06 Oct 12 23:25

Thanks Luke -
Luke_215 wrote:I may have missed a meeting here, but if you just double click on the file name under the thumbnail it opens up for editing. Seems to work on mine.
- that's the great thing about this forum - I hadn't tried that because I generally set the "View" to "Clean" (no file name displayed) or "Grid". In the Grid view when I double click or press Enter on the file name it gives the *appearance* of allowing the name to be changed, but when you check in Explorer nothing at all has happened. I have already reported this as a bug - in "Grid View" none of the actions that are possible in Normal or Clean mode are possible, you can't even select multiple files at once - http://bugs.idimager.com/view.php?id=1149 and http://bugs.idimager.com/view.php?id=1148. Also related is http://bugs.idimager.com/view.php?id=1154.

Mike Buckley
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Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by Mike Buckley » 06 Oct 12 23:40

Luke_215 wrote:if you just double click on the file name under the thumbnail it opens up for editing.
It would be a good idea to make a copy of two images in an isolated test folder. Change the name of the second file to the name of the first file. Determine whether any damage is done.

gcoupe
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Location: Heelweg, The Netherlands

Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by gcoupe » 07 Oct 12 9:15

Mike Buckley wrote:
Luke_215 wrote:if you just double click on the file name under the thumbnail it opens up for editing.
It would be a good idea to make a copy of two images in an isolated test folder. Change the name of the second file to the name of the first file. Determine whether any damage is done.
I've tried it - and something isn't working properly.

First, although you can rename a file to be the same as another in the same folder, that's not reflected in the actual Windows folder.
Second, the act of renaming a file doesn't always get reflected out to the Windows folder. Sometimes it does work (you see the activity process indicator), and sometimes it doesn't. It's very hit and miss.
Third, changing the name of a file in PSU, and then verifying the folder will also not result in the namechange being reflected out into Windows. The name gets changed back to the Windows name.
Geoff Coupe
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Photo Supreme /Windows 10 Pro 64 bits + Windows Home Server 2011 = DAM

Mike Buckley
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Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by Mike Buckley » 07 Oct 12 12:23

That's important information, Geoff. Thanks for conducting the test and reporting the results. It's clear to me that, just as in IDimager, the only safe way to rename files in Supreme is to use the renaming dialog whether it is accessed using the keyboard shortcut or using the rename command in the Batcher. EDIT: No longer true now that Hert has made a change that automatically creates a unique filename if the same filename already exists in the folder.
Last edited by Mike Buckley on 10 Oct 12 13:35, edited 2 times in total.

gcoupe
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Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by gcoupe » 07 Oct 12 13:58

The rename dialog strikes me as a clumsy and complex way of renaming a file.

First of all, CTRL+SHIFT+R to bring up the dialog is already a barrier, because I have to remember it, while double-clicking on the thumbnail name is straightforward, and is the same behavior as in Windows Explorer and many other Windows applications (e.g. Windows Photo Gallery).

Second, when you get the rename dialog displayed, you're presented with a macro expression, not the actual filename (even though that is displayed in the dialog's title bar).

Frankly, if all I want to do is correct a simple spelling mistake in a filename, it's probably quicker to shell out to the Windows Explorer using Right-click/Locate in Windows Explorer, do it there and then switch back to PSU. Still strikes me as clumsy, but it gets the job done.
Geoff Coupe
--------------
Photo Supreme /Windows 10 Pro 64 bits + Windows Home Server 2011 = DAM

andrew.heard
Posts: 187
Joined: 16 Jun 10 0:36

Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by andrew.heard » 07 Oct 12 23:06

I agree entirely with Geoff. I spent quite a while in the Rename dialog going through all the macros looking for the simplest case for "just renaming a file" using a typed in literal rather than a %macro but couldn't find anything. All the complex, less used scenarios appear to be covered, but not the simplest.

Mike Buckley
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Joined: 10 Jul 08 14:18

Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by Mike Buckley » 08 Oct 12 1:26

The dialog seems to be designed as a tool to rename many files in a batch process. To that end, it should work very well. If you want to rename just one file, that is the sort of thing that should be done using the operating system. Whether we like the approach of Supreme in general, I applaud that renaming an individual file is left to the operating system just as moving physical files is also left to the operating system; in my mind, there seems to be consistent thought about this.

On the other hand, I haven't used the Text module built into the renaming dialog. Does it allow you to simply type the name of a single renamed file? If so, that's pretty simple. However, if indeed it does allow that, the name of the dialog should not refer to Macros if macros are not needed.

RickHeath
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Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by RickHeath » 09 Oct 12 20:42

Mike Buckley wrote:The dialog seems to be designed as a tool to rename many files in a batch process. To that end, it should work very well. If you want to rename just one file, that is the sort of thing that should be done using the operating system. Whether we like the approach of Supreme in general, I applaud that renaming an individual file is left to the operating system just as moving physical files is also left to the operating system; in my mind, there seems to be consistent thought about this.
Provided it works - I am extremely wary as with IDI the few timers I have done any file management in Windows Explorer (with IDI running) I found that it broke all the versions of the moved files/renamed folders (particularly if some images are in a subfolder of the one changed) and took more time cleaning up the mess that had been left (thank goodness for the VDW).

Is Supreme any better at this? That's definitely a deal breaker for me at the moment.

Regards

Rick.

fbungarz
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Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by fbungarz » 09 Oct 12 21:13

No File Manager = one more reason not to migrate.

But seriously: The ability to see exactly where files are located and use a file manager similar to Windows Explorer within the photo management software was one reason why way back I decided to use IDI (instead of other programs like iView, which did not offer that functionality). The argument not to include a file manager in Photo Supreme is dogmatic. It reflects the general tendency in computers no longer to grant the user access to the location of their files. With each version of Windows, Explorer becomes worse, so that I already had to switch to an alternative (XYplorer). Mac's "Finder" doesn't even deserve the name.

And yes, even Picasa has a file manager. What kind of argument is it to say, we don't give you a tool to have access to your file location because we want to force you using your catalog instead. That is only a small step from what iTunes does with music files, throwing them around all over my harddrive renaming the music files to something completely cryptic... Do we want that for a photo management software. I'd rather call it mismanagement if one doesn't even have easy access to where the files are actually located.

Frank

andrew.heard
Posts: 187
Joined: 16 Jun 10 0:36

Re: how do you "just simply rename" an image?

Post by andrew.heard » 10 Oct 12 2:42

Mike Buckley wrote:The dialog seems to be designed as a tool to rename many files in a batch process. To that end, it should work very well. If you want to rename just one file, that is the sort of thing that should be done using the operating system. Whether we like the approach of Supreme in general, I applaud that renaming an individual file is left to the operating system just as moving physical files is also left to the operating system; in my mind, there seems to be consistent thought about this.

On the other hand, I haven't used the Text module built into the renaming dialog. Does it allow you to simply type the name of a single renamed file? If so, that's pretty simple. However, if indeed it does allow that, the name of the dialog should not refer to Macros if macros are not needed.
I take you point Mike but I don't see the consistency. The UI allows you to do the hard stuff (batch rename with every macro known to man) but not the bleeding obvious stuff (rename by interactively typing). How is a user going to know the difference instead of thinking like me "it must be buried in here somewhere if I dig deep enough"? Plus in View > Normal mode you can double+click a filename and it can be renamed interactively. It worked for me but others have already reported it doesn't work all the time or even renamed to an existing filename. If a double+click works (sort of) then UI design convention (in Windows at least) would suggest the context menu also has Rename listed as an command, along with its shortcut key so the user can "discover" functionality without trawling through user manuals or keyboard cheat sheets.

Also, if you swap to Grid view, the UI gives the impression you can rename interactively, but any change is just silently ignored.

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