Capture One Edits

[Mike Buckley]

'Convert Meta to XMP' should possibly be avoided although it sounded good initially.

I use that command on all of my vertically oriented images to correct a problem caused by Nikon Capture NX2 editing software. It might help you to know that I have never experienced any of the negative issues you're experiencing. I just now checked to make sure I hadn't been overlooking some issues and confirmed that it works like a charm on my system.

I recommend that you apply that command to images that are straight out of the camera and have not been touched by Capture One. If the same problems are experienced, perhaps the problems are being caused by Supreme. If no problems are experienced, perhaps the problems are being caused by Capture One.

[Hert]

Mike is correct. C1 is not creating correct Xmp and a workaround would be to have the Xmp created with PSU (or an Adobe product) before using C1.

BTW, also report this to phaseone so they can fix this important issue.

[Stephen]

Just to ensure that there are no misunderstandings between us, let me reiterate.

I want to use PSu as my bible and prime point of reference.
My problems are caused when "re-importing".
When files are imported for the first time, PSu creates an xmp, which I presume is accurate, as I can see all of the meta data. In a few cases I add the lens information if an old manual lens was used.

I cannot judge whether C1 touches the xmp file at all. I can only state that the meta data is intact when I look at the modified file in the Finder. Mac has an Info pop-up which will show all the EXIF and other data.

Mike
I have just tried the 'Convert Meta to XMP' on a file untouched by Capture One and nothing happens, i.e. all the data remains intact.

Admin or anybody
Based on this, can one rule out the possibility that PSu does not like re-importing it and some problem is occurring at that stage? Could I send a file to somebody for checking?

--- P.S.
Could this have any bearing on the problem?

Before exporting to C1 all files are located in one of thousands of subfolders in directory Library B. The xmp files are in the same place. All images are on an external drive

Then they are imported into C1 and edited.

Then they are processed & exported to maybe 3 different locations in a different directory named export (C1 does this simultaneously)
folder 72bpi
folder 300dpi
folder archive TIF

All of the files have an xmp sidecar file with the time of export. Capture One also puts a subfolder with all of its adjustment settings (like .cos files) in the same directory.

Then I import one of those to PSu so that I have good color rendering of the edited file.

All images are again on an external drive.
---

[Mike Buckley]

All of the files have an xmp sidecar file with the time of export. Capture One also puts a subfolder with all of its a setting in the same place.

Are you saying that Capture One uses two sidecar files -- one with XMP data created by Supreme and the other with image-editing information created by Capture One?

[Stephen]

<<<Are you saying that Capture One uses two sidecar files -- one with XMP data created by Supreme and the other with image-editing information created by Capture One?

Mike,
Sorry I did not read your response properly as I was in a hurry. Here is my correction.

When exporting from Capture One I select a directory which Supreme does not know. When C1 writes the file it also writes an XMP file with the same time stamp. C1 always creates a sub-directory to put its image-editing information. This sub-directory can be put anywhere, but I selected the same location to keep everything together. I doubt that the location has any bearing. This is underlined by the fact that older files which I had edited and re-imported show the same problem, which did not occur to me at the time. I will do a test though.

[Mike Buckley]

Supreme makes no distinction between importing and re-importing; everything is imported whether once or repeatedly insofar as how the software seems to work. Considering that no problems are caused when Supreme imports images that have not been touched by Capture One, the latter software or your use of it seems at least on the surface to probably be the culprit.

However, there are other details to be considered that are not yet clear in my mind. My guess is that one needs to be a user of Capture One to sufficiently understand its capabilities with regard to its use of XMP files and storage of image-editing information. I've tried to gain that understanding but to no avail.

I keep coming back in my mind to the fact that I can use Supreme to import images edited and saved as renamed or not renamed files in Nikon Capture NX2, images edited and saved as renamed files or not renamed files in Photoshop Elements and images edited and exported as renamed files in Photoshop Lightroom. I can also use Supreme to automatically create, import and version files made from those files created by the three brands of software. The EXIF information isn't changed or lost in any of those situations. So, everything in my mind is pointing to either your use of Capture One or to problems being caused by Capture One beyond your control.

I hope you get everything under your control and that you soon come to a use of Supreme that is as effective and enjoyable as mine has always been.

[Stephen]

Mike,

Many thanks for your help and encouragement. I am still trying to analyze where the problem occurs.

A test today showed that a RAW image opened in C1 and just saved in JPEG without editing had the same problems.

That sounds automatically like a C1 problem, but could it caused by opening C1 via the C1 button which I have at the top of my PSu screen (which I can test). Please don't hammer me because I am trying to explore all possibilities.

Why do I say that? Because previously I was using C1 with Aperture. I used to export my Aperture images and import them into C1, modify them and the re-import them into Aperture. Before starting with PSu, I exported my Aperture images (edited and not edited with C1) and imported them into PSu. Via my new PSu "database", I have just reviewed those which were edited in 2014 using the same version of C1 and they are perfect. All of the meta data is present.

[Mike Buckley]

That's really odd, Stephen. You mentioned that the images you edited in 2014 were done using the same version of Capture One as you're now using. Is the version number exactly the same. As an example, is it possible that one version is 8.1 and the other version is 8.2?

[Stephen]

That's really odd, Stephen. You mentioned that the images you edited in 2014 were done using the same version of Capture One as you're now using. Is the version number exactly the same. As an example, is it possible that one version is 8.1 and the other version is 8.2?

I am using the very last version of #7, which is 7.2.3

[Mike Buckley]

It seems that it would be well worth your time to test the latest version.

[Stephen]

Back to square 1! It's a long story, but I don't want to get into details. Either in the forum or more likely at the outset before buying PSu, I mentioned that although the latest C1 is free, I am restricted by my current OS. It is not a financial question, but a question of time and studying compatibility of umpteen programs. It will be changed sometime soon but meanwhile I must solve an increasing backlog of photos.

P.S. I did not mean to sound critical, thanks again.

[Stephen]

Enclosed is a small jpeg file. All the EXIF data appears to be intact. When you open it in Capture One it is invisible; you can only see the lens model. If you use the command 'Convert Meta to XMP', the EXIF data appears, but the lens model and focal length disappears!

20150204-163158-0765.jpg (218.33 KiB) Viewed 6819 times

[Hert]

Stephen,

Look at the image with ExifTool (screenshots below). There's no technical data in XMP (exactly how I expected it to be). But there is LensInfo written to XMP, but this lens info is not written to Exif! When you do a conversion from metadata to XMP in PSU to fix this stupidity from C1 then the Exif is converted to XMP. But as they don't write the LensInfo to Exif your existing LensInfo is removed as there's no LensInfo for this image in Exif.

Bottom line (again!!!): C1 is primairily ann EDITOR and as an EDITOR they do their best to consider metadata, but they don't care about metadata as much as a DAM does. In their infancy with handling metadata they mess up your metadata and if you can live with that then that's ok. If you can't then let them know that they should stop these practices and fix this asap as they are currently messing up a large group of photographers' metadata and years from now when the current generation of users switch to other tools (including PSU) they will all having troubles. FWIW; the exact same thing happened with Microsoft in the past, so I've seen this before.

Maybe you can use metadata cascading to re-cascade your metadata from the original file to the "C1 developed" file.

Before "Convert metadata to XMP"

Stephen_BeforeXMP.png (54.28 KiB) Viewed 6807 times

After "Convert metadata to XMP"

Stephen_AfterXMP.png (53.08 KiB) Viewed 6807 times

[Stephen]

EDITED
Many thanks. I bow to your greater experience, but I can see all of this data when I open the file in Mac's Preview and press the "Cmd Info". Screenshot is enclosed. As far as I understand the matter, this shows (to me):
1. That the info is available in that file, which I have isolated on a USB stick. You have also been able to generate that information from somewhere and
2. I see that the data you provide shows sRGB colour space. The photo was shot in Adobe RGB 1998, which is confirmed in Capture One when the EXIF data field is open and also in the "General" Mac's Preview Info field. I hope you can believe me without my having to make further screen shots.

I would like to understand why this is so and also whether a colour space conversion is happening somewhere, which, although it possibly has nothing to do with EXIF data might be interfering with our observations? (I am only investigating this time-consuming workaround because of a color rendering problem in PSu from files which has been edited in C1). This is documented in another thread.

_DSC3651.jpg (43.1 KiB) Viewed 6805 times

[Mike Buckley]

If you use the command 'Convert Meta to XMP', the EXIF data appears, but the lens model and focal length disappears!

That also happened on my system when applying that command to your image.

EDIT: To be more precise, the name of the lens model and the range of focal lengths available on that lens disappears. The focal length used to capture the image appears.