questions about PSU geocoding

[fbungarz]

I ran that script. No change.

[Hert]

Did you restart PSU?

[fbungarz]

Thanks. Running the script followed by a restart did the trick. It works now!

[Mke]

Thanks for clarifying.
BTW - it seems geocoding, unlike labeling, applies only to the selected image out of a version set. Is that by design? I would think images that belong to the same version set would all be from the same locality, or not?

So would I. There's a Mantis request for that at http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=2367 (and a more comprehensive version at http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=2633).

[fbungarz]

Hi Mke,
OK, I have seen the second issue already before, but missed the first one. I voted for both to be implemented.

Quick question:
I forgot to mention that there is actually one advantage having the GPS data not automatically applied to all images: It seems that applying GPS data is automatic and instantaneous even if I do not hit the "apply" button. This seems to be different from the Details panel. In that panel: when I forget to apply Metadata a warning message pops up, asking whether I do not want to apply the data? That is great because sometimes I make a mistake and then can simply cancel it.
Why is there no such warning in the GPS panel? Just inadvertently moving a marker writes the GPS data to all images! I had a couple of instances where fortunately the correct data were still present in the subversions. There should be a warning box asking if I really want to change existing GPS data! (But perhaps I accidentally disabled the warning and if so: how can I get it back???)

Thanks,
Frank

[fbungarz]

I have just seen this post: http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=23898

(4) Having put information in the GEO Tag panel and done a lookup, the Catalog gets updated automatically; this is out of line with the Details panel, where I have to click the “Apply” button (or answer a question about whether I want to update the Catalog, if I move away from the photo in question). The “Apply” button thus appears to be redundant on the GEO Tag panel. Apart from the inconsistency within PSU, it is additionally annoying because of the previous point – having been given the wrong coordinate information I can’t get rid of it! I would prefer it if, having done a lookup (or a reverse lookup), you had to click the "Apply" button to cause any updating to take place.

I guess this answers my last question.
But: has anyone submitted this to Mantis? I think this is a very unfortunate behavior of the GPS panel! I shoot a lot of images with a GPS receiver and accidentally messing up GPs data in those images could be catastrophic. Seems like the GPS Panel really works without and "safety belts"! A rather dangerous way to implement this!

EDIT: Seems like there is a safety belt after all. Sorry, my mistake, I just found this:

Ok, I know what happens: the asking dialog for "Apply changes?" has a "Do not ask me again" option - so I'm pretty sure you must have checkmarked that in the past. You will most likely see again the asking dialog for applying new coordinates if you invoke the action: Help -> Reset "Don't ask again" questions. (Obviously, this may restore other confirmation dialogs too.)

[vlad]

Thanks for clarifying.
BTW - it seems geocoding, unlike labeling, applies only to the selected image out of a version set. Is that by design? I would think images that belong to the same version set would all be from the same locality, or not?

So would I. There's a Mantis request for that at http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=2367 (and a more comprehensive version at http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=2633).

Even if multiple image versions depict the very same subject (in the very same location), a photographer might want to distribute a version with geo data stripped out on purpose. But, yeah, an option for auto-cascading geo data seems natural.

[fbungarz]

a photographer might want to distribute a version with geo data stripped out on purpose

As far as I know, you can always remove the data that you do not want before distributing the file...

[vlad]

(5) Selecting several photos with different coordinates using right-click they "displayed on map" their minute thumbs are all shown scattered across the map. On the GPS-Panel map only the green set-marker is shown and only for a single image selected. Selecting several images with coordinates no markers are shown. Is this by design?

I wondered the same thing and I guess it's by design. I'm copying here a suggestion I made in a note to Mantis #1875:

I would love a "Show expanded map" button in the Geo Tag panel. It would invoke the same map window as Shift+G (or as the button in the geo label details, if the map windows are made visually identical: see FR #3028) and it would provide the same functionality. Basically, the new button would serve as both a reminder and a shortcut for the (amazing) Shift+G functionality.

EDIT (addition):

My reasoning: if the geo tag panel map allowed the independent setting and moving of multiple markers (or thumbnails), then the GPS coordinates could silently get out of sync with any metadata already stored in location fields. (Actually, that's true for the Shift+G map too, except that it doesn't come along with location fields at all.)

Perhaps the geo tag panel could still show multiple markers (or thumbs), but freeze them on the map (...until the user sets a common marker or toggles an unlocking option)? Anyway, the Shift+G map is better (as it's movable and resizeable) - and the map window displayed via geo label details is virtually perfect. (See FR #3028)

[fbungarz]

(

4) I though it was possible to drag a photo onto the map in the GPS-Panel,

I don't remember such a feature. I guess it could come in handy as a workaround for (3).

Well, perhaps that was one functionality I remember from IDI v5. Not sure...

(5) Selecting several photos with different coordinates using right-click they "displayed on map" their minute thumbs are all shown scattered across the map. On the GPS-Panel map only the green set-marker is shown and only for a single image selected. Selecting several images with coordinates no markers are shown. Is this by design?

I wondered the same thing and I guess it's by design. I'm copying here a suggestion I made in a note to Mantis #1875:

The way this is implemented right now is essentially analogous to Details not showing any information when several thumbs are selected. There have been quite a few discussions about displaying the data shared among different photos in the Details panel. Hert's argument was always it would decrease performance, but oddly enough the Info panel does exactly do that: it displays the information shared among several images...
Reading your Mantis comment I see that some people suggest in the case of the GEO-panel clutter is a concern. Well that is another argument often made about other feature requests too. If clutter indeed is a concern I don't see many chances for your feature request of adding a button to switch between display modes.
For me data showing several markers, when selecting several images shoulc clearly be the default. Data being present, but not being shown is simply counter-intuitive!!! I believe that argument weighs heavily. Novices will necessarily be irritated to see the Geo markers mysteriously vanish when several images with Geo data are being selected. They might even thing they did something wrong and Geo data got deleted! This cannot possibly be a desired effect and "clutter" is a very weak argument against it.

However, clutter may not actually be the main argument: currently the single marker that is being displayed is a "functional" marker. You move it, the Geo data in your images change. That can obviously not be the case when several images are selected.

On a side note: I re-enabled "show all warning messages". It has no effect! I move the marker, the change of coordinates is applied without any warning or option to cancel, when I select another image. That means "safety belts" are completely off when using the panel. Very irritating, not elegant, and I am (oddly enough) quite happy that the panel therefore only changes Geo data of the selected version. At least it lets me recover Geo data that were accidentally changed by cascading the data back. Overall changing Geo data is made much too easy. One can easily mess up a lot of files...

[vlad]

The way this is implemented right now is essentially analogous to Details not showing any information when several thumbs are selected. There have been quite a few discussions about displaying the data shared among different photos in the Details panel. Hert's argument was always it would decrease performance,

I'm willing to bet that Hert's argument is 100% correct: verifying which metadata field values are identical across hundreds or thousands of images could decrease performance to the point of making the Details panel virtually unusable. The current design seems to me the only sane design. Perhaps a button could be added to the bottom of the Details panel to trigger the detection and displaying of common metadata on demand? (That could be useful if there aren't too many images selected.)

but oddly enough the Info panel does exactly do that: it displays the information shared among several images...

I've checked that and your statement is not correct. For multiple images, the info panel always displays the info corresponding to the first selected image. (A bit misleading, I would say.) The edits still apply to the whole selection, however.

Hert, is this by design?

Reading your Mantis comment I see that some people suggest in the case of the GEO-panel clutter is a concern. Well that is another argument often made about other feature requests too. If clutter indeed is a concern I don't see many chances for your feature request of adding a button to switch between display modes.

You could be right.

For me data showing several markers, when selecting several images shoulc clearly be the default. Data being present, but not being shown is simply counter-intuitive!!! I believe that argument weighs heavily. Novices will necessarily be irritated to see the Geo markers mysteriously vanish when several images with Geo data are being selected. They might even thing they did something wrong and Geo data got deleted! This cannot possibly be a desired effect and "clutter" is a very weak argument against it.

See the edit (addition) to my previous post.

However, clutter may not actually be the main argument: currently the single marker that is being displayed is a "functional" marker. You move it, the Geo data in your images change. That can obviously not be the case when several images are selected.

Well, the geo coordinates are changed on the fly when the thumbnails are moved on the Shift-G map. The geo panel map could work exactly the same - it's simply a design choice. (Hert chose to allow real time map marker changes for one image only.) It's just the location fields that couldn't be automatically changed (...unless, maybe, an automatic reverse lookup was performed and recorded everytime a map marker was dragged and eventually released).

On reflection, the geo tag panel requires user validation (the Apply button) before the changes take effect. If multiple markers (thumbs) were visble and independently movable, but the changes were still subject to final validation, then the geo tag panel could be indeed more useful, while still providing a safety belt (see bellow).

On a side note: I re-enabled "show all warning messages". It has no effect! I move the marker, the change of coordinates is applied without any warning or option to cancel, when I select another image. That means "safety belts" are completely off when using the panel.

That's very strage, Frank. You should try resetting the "Don't Ask Again" questions again.
(Let's just hope FR #2907 gets implemented and delivers needed transparency on which actions currently request user confirmation.)

[fbungarz]

I'm willing to bet that Hert's argument is 100% correct...

I did not necessarily mean to challenge Hert on this, just noticed the difference with the Info panel.

I've checked that and your statement is not correct. For multiple images, the info panel always displays the info corresponding to the first selected image. (A bit misleading, I would say.) The edits still apply to the whole selection, however.

OK, I did not notice that. I guess the Info panel originally served a different purpose with the standard fields on the top. I much like the fact that you can add quite a few custom fields below and thus essentially combine different fields from the Details panel. Very nice. My assumption the reason why the data here can be shown even across different images without significant performance decrease was this: Depending on which Details panel view you use (Basic, Advanced, DarwinCore Xpress, IPTC) this panel indeed has to query a LOT more fields that even fit on a customized info Panel. So, the amount of resources having to query these fields are potentially quite enormous for the Details panel, much less so for the Info Tab.

That you now say, this is not the case, but the Info panels simply displays data of the first image selected also makes sense. I guess I did not pay close enough attention. Still, that may be by design...

The current design [of the Details panel] seems to me the only sane design. Perhaps a button could be added to ...to trigger ... displaying of common metadata on demand?

Would be nice but if what you say about resource use that button would be a trigger ready for disaster. You hit it when thousands of images are selected and everything freezes...

If multiple markers (thumbs) were visble and independently movable, but the changes were still subject to final validation, then the geo tag panel could be indeed more useful, while still providing a safety belt (see bellow).

Multiple markers that all can be moved??? Sorry, but to me that request seems slightly insane. If you select multiple files, how would you know which image corresponds to which particular marker? The tiny thumbs that currently show with Shift+G even on a big screen are hardly sufficient to distinguish closely similar images. No, I would definitely vote for only one marker being movable, when one image is selected!

[vlad]

The current design [of the Details panel] seems to me the only sane design. Perhaps a button could be added to ...to trigger ... displaying of common metadata on demand?

Would be nice but if what you say about resource use that button would be a trigger ready for disaster. You hit it when thousands of images are selected and everything freezes...

Well, you could be sensible and hit that button only for a small number of files. Or get a clear warning when you press it for many files. Or shoot yourself in the foot, if you insist.

Multiple markers that all can be moved??? Sorry, but to me that request seems slightly insane. If you select multiple files, how would you know which image corresponds to which particular marker? The tiny thumbs that currently show with Shift+G even on a big screen are hardly sufficient to distinguish closely similar images. No, I would definitely vote for only one marker being movable, when one image is selected!

Frank, I thought you were annoyed that no markers or thumbs are currently displayed for multiple images. You want them displayed but not movable? (Fair enough, I previously suggested that as a possibility.)

[fbungarz]

You want them displayed but not movable? (Fair enough, I previously suggested that as a possibility.)

Yep, that is waht I'd like

[fbungarz]

Hi Vlad,
resetting the warning messages a second time worked. No idea what I did wrong the first time. So safety belts are "on" now.

On a related note: I have been testing how PSu creates Geo-labels a little more. Overall it works fairly well. Most of the time it correctly finds the right place and for the few times it does not work I can re-locate the label. However, a drawback when re-locating to place the label where it belongs is this:
No problem the next time I apply that label, but if instead I apply it again via the favorites in the GEO Panel a new de facto "duplicate" is created and inserted right into the place from where I previously had to re-locate that label.
I am not surprised, it makes sense, but it bears the question: how can I now get rid of that entry from the favorites list? I'd like to keep the favorites that worked well, where the labels were created in the right place, but I'd rather eliminate the ones that did not place the labels where they belong...
In the list I see "add a new favorite", but no option to delete or edit one.
I have posted that question also here: http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=24292

Cheers,
Frank