Workflow

[pgfrancis01]

My current workflow is:
1. Ingest images RAW + JPEGS into capture folder (date based folder structure) and catalog using PSU
2. Cull to remove:
- JPEGS not required (some retained due to use of art filters etc)
- out of focus
- poor composition
- etc
3. Rename files
4. Add metadata and geotag
5. Identify images suitable for further work (use star rating + colour label = select)
6. Export images set to "select" to working folder (date based folder structure)
7. Use Capture One Pro to edit photos and export final images as required (cataloging of exported images not required)
8. In Capture One edit Colour label to indicate images has been processed

A couple of questions:
- How do I make sure any metadata in step 4 is retained especially any star ratings, colour labels, when I export images?
- What do I need to do to reflect any colour label changes made in step 8 to PSU catalog?

[Stephen]

PSu and C1 do not communicate well with each other so I would not rely on any meta data or colour and stars ratings to carry over in either direction.

I always export my C1 edited files to a different folder and then use the verify folder function in PSu to find them. How ever you do it, you can always rate the new imports once they are back in PSu and verify the assigned labels at that time.

I find this the most reliable way to work with C1. Having said that, I’ m on the road and have not yet been able to discover the latest features in C1-9. Now even C1-10 has been released, so I’m a few steps behind.

You will find other tips in using C1 by searching this forum.

Using Mac, so it might be different to Windows.

[HCS]

I would advise to choose a system of record for either action, cataloguing and raw conversion/editing.

I start my work in PSU, i import the images (downloading from card to HDD via MAC finder). I cull images in PSU (even though i don't throw away any file), by rating the selects with 1 star.

I "send" those to CO (CO in session mode) and edit to taste. No need to export files, but if done, those will also be catalogued. Raws in PSU which have been edited in CO are marked with a keyword to reflect this. Images posted or published anywhere are marked as such with a keyword as well. I have PSU configure to approximate the edits in CO.

I try to maintain discipline to only manage files in PSU and only do conversion in a raw converter like CO (i also use others).

Hope this helps.

[vkfoto]

Looks like here is a method to suit everyone's idea of how it should be done. Me, I do the following:

Using DownLoader Pro, I extract the images from the SD card, renaming them to a standard "yyyy-mm-dd-sequence#". DLP also creates a new folder named "yyyy-mm-dd job-name" to store the images.
Then I use BreezeBrowser to quickly cull the lot, mostly out of focus, miss-aimed (feet, sky, etc.) and other technical glitches.
Next I move the out-of-camera JPG images to their own folder. These are saved in case I want to see how the camera interpreted the scene. Still thinking about the need to really save a RAW as well as the corresponding JPG file. Do it more by habit at this time.
If I need the images right-away, I process the RAWs first in DXO, export the needed images and then use PSu to add appropriate meta data to the lot.
If not, PSu gets the images to tag them and latter I'll process them as needed.

As you can see, PSu is only used to manage the labels (keywords). Because of the overhead of importing and then deleting, I only give PSu those images that have passed the first culling done in BB, that way PSu only gets those images that should be in for the duration.

[fbungarz]

Just noticed, nobody tried answering your questions, but instead posted their own, very different workflows...

A couple of questions:
- How do I make sure any metadata in step 4 is retained especially any star ratings, color labels, when I export images?

XMP (in-)compatibility is indeed a big problem.
Outside PSu, other programs need to read color labels correctly. That can be a problem, if you choose to change the names of the color labels in PSu Preferences. The color labels unfortunately are not stored with their "color" but their name, which means, different programs often interpret them differently. For star ratings that should not be the case. Programs like Lightroom or Capture One should pick those up. Only DxO apparently uses a different way of ratings.
One great way to make sure you preserve ratings and color labels (or any other XMP data) that you assigned in PSu is to use versioning. If you keep a "master version" that is never touched/modified outside PSu you can use that version to cascade the metadata back to any (sub-)version that was modified/generated outside PSU.
To be able to do that, you will only slightly need to modify your existing workflow: keep the JPG and use it as the main version. When you modify/develop your RAWs you can then cascade the metadata from the main version back into these modified files. Voliá - the star and color ratings assigned in PSu are back to what they were...

- What do I need to do to reflect any colour label changes made in step 8 to PSU catalog?

Now that is the opposite to your previous request, right?
The most simple advice: "don't ..."
Simply use PSu for the task of rating and assigning color labels.
Well, probably you won't like that response, right? Else you would not have asked "how to..."

So, here is the thing: if you modify a file outside PSu, the changes to that file can only be picked up, if PSu is running. That is not convenient and besides even then this kind of file-monitoring actually does not work well at all.
In any case: if you have PSu closed, it cannot "see" any of these changes and you need to force it to "read" them. This means: you need to refresh the thumbnails AND you need to read the changed metadata from the file.
Simple? Well actually not. Stephen warned you already that CaptureOne and PSu don't play well together - mainly because CaptureOne does not seem to think it is necessary to adhere to metadata standards. Instead they have the reputation to badly mess with metadata.
This means: IF you read metadata from files changed outside (e.g., CaptureOne) you are running the risk that (a) some changes won't be understood accurately (the color labels are one notorious example) and (b) some of the metadata might have been corrupted/deleted/destroyed by third party editors (like: CaptureOne!). This means accepting/tolerating a certain risk of metadata loss - in my opinion another good argument to keep a main version (an untouched, never modified master version) as a safeguard.

Well, all that said - try experimenting on some test files and check the results of the different strategies carefully, then choose what suits you best. Perhaps, preserving all metadata is not your highest priority, then you'll get away, probably, with simply making sure your color labels and star rating changes are seen, when you read them back (via CTRL+ALT+S) in PSu. Else, if your metadata are sacrosanct, avoid changing them outside PSu and upon return to PSu cascade them back into files that potentially might have messed with them...

All the best,
Frank

[HCS]

Just noticed, nobody tried answering your questions, but instead posted their own, very different workflows...

Well ... i doubt that

If you'd read my post, you'd find as an opening sentence "I would advise to choose a system of record for either action, cataloguing and raw conversion/editing." This indicates that i believe pushing on in a direction that fulfills Murphy's law to let things go wrong isn't helping someone.

I'd like the OP to have a look again at his workflow and have a good thought about which function is done by which application. I am a firm believer of the thought that one function should only be performed by one application, i.e. one system of record.

Then i indeed went on to explain my own workflow, as it also uses PSU and CO, to demonstrate the above concept.

Hope this helps explain my explanation. Obviously, this is not a stab at Frank (i apologize if it reads like this), but an attempt to clarify my own post.

As always, YMMV.

[fbungarz]

Hi HCS,
no offense taken and sorry if I came across a bit "reductionist"
I certainly did not mean to talk badly about anyone's workflow. There is no golden rule how to best achieve one's goal. Any workflow needs to address the specific needs of a specific user.
I basically agree with your statements that ideally one should best use an application for the purpose it was designed for or at least where it performs best.
But I do understand the need to do rating and color labeling across different programs. You edit an image and then often decide it wasn't quite as bad as you thought (thus increase its star rating) or you decide it hasn't quite been worth it (and thus downgrade it). It is kind of inconvenient if you can only do that in the one program performs best at databasing (PSu) and not also in the program you have been using to just edit that file...


Cheers,
Frank

[Stephen]

In fact, I too mentioned that these 2 applications don't communicate well, which rather obviated going into more detail.

PSu and C1 do not communicate well with each other so I would not rely on any meta data or colour and stars ratings to carry over in either direction.

The GOOD news is that Capture One version 9 'appears' (careful formulation) to have solved some metadata problems. Images processed in C1-9 now retain the camera data, which PSu terms 'Technical' in the Details panel.

Keywords are still off though, so when I pull edited images back into PSu, the first thing I do is to delete all the keywords / labels. (I know that keywords & labels are different but for simplicity I have bundled them. As I colour code the edited images on 'import to PSu' and put them in a subfolder under the originals, by clicking on the right oval button, it is easy to get originals and edits shown together. Then I select both and add the missing / keywords labels. It's not an ideal solution, but it solves the problem.

Capture One is now on version 10, which I have not yet tested.

[pgfrancis01]

Thanks everyone for responding to my questions and all responses are gratefully accepted. Apologies for the delay in responding.

I'm definitely a big believer in a single source of truth, however as mentioned by Frank above there often occasions when browsing/comparing files in editing tools like Photolab or On1 (especially after another coffee or drink) I invariably want to change colour or star rating up or down. It would be nice if all these tools played nicely with each other.
My current workflow is:
PhotoMechanic - Ingestion/Culling

• Ingest and backup files using Photomechanic (and back up gets synced to a cloud location)

• Use Photomechanic to apply basic metadata template to all files e.g. copyright info etc

• Cull files for various reasons (and I still have backup copy if I change my mind)

• Rename remaining files

• Rate files I want to work on and geotag

• Copy to a new "working" folder

Editing- - Variety of Tools (and try to avoid altering metadata)

• Work on files using DXO Photolab or On1 etc

• If using On1 AI see what keywords are generated and add to keywords as required

DAM - Photo Supreme

• Add working folder to Folders

• Add keywords etc

• Add to/Create Portfolios

Lessons Learned

• Some features like On1 Photo Raw catalogs and keywords AI are great but don't play nicely with Keyword structures from other tools - use browse in On1 not catalogs

• Don't use On1 Keyword List structure - it adds keywords with > and trashes keyword metadata field

• Don't use colour labels they are problematic across software (this will take me a while to rework old files and relative ratings) - star ratings seem more consistent (would be good if editing/dam software had an option to use colour scheme from other software like PhotoMechanic does

• Photo Supreme is still one of the best DAMs I've come across (especially now I know I can relabel People -> WHO, Places -> WHERE and Events -> WHAT

[apanella]

"CaptureOne and PSu don't play well together"

I use C1 and PSU almost every day... They seem to play well together for me.

I first use PSU to import the card into the catalog to make use of those great auto-features in PSU import to catalog.

I am now off editing with C1...

The trick to make sure C1 and PSU play well together... limit metadata changes in C1 to stars and colors.... For colors, also limit your selection to the five that PSU supports. I use stars and colors to track what I will edit and what is done.

How to get this to work every time?
[C1 Pre-requisite: Metadata autosync settings set to full sync.]

After the edits are done in C1 Session, select all images with stars or colors:
C1 > select files > Rt. Click > Syn Meta data...

Next, in PSU; Rt. Click on correct folder > Verify Folder > Verify Folder Quick. Approve what PSU finds in the verification step.
If I make a mistake and use an unsupported color, PSU elegantly overlooks the mistake by leaving the status "no color".

[Takes under 60 seconds for both actions.]


Since we are now in PSU, it is a good time to use those awesome PSU features for keywording, adding missed Geotags, new AI features, etc!

This process has worked for the last three revisions of C1 and last three revs of PSU. 
This would not be possible without the PSU "Verify" feature which I am thankful to have.

Certainly, it is better practice to use a SINGLE control point for editing metadata! No disagreements with the noble goal.
But some tracking of images in the Photo Editor seems required. First, my memory is not that good... Second, it would seem tedious to toggle between PSU/C1 one image at a time. But hey, we all think a bit differently.


For transparency, I have experimented with editing other XMP fields (eg. headlines, description) in C1 using the above process. Although it seems to work without issue, it moves further away from the "noble goal". Thus, my choice (and recommendation to others) is to use PSU editing of all other meta data.

Of note... as fields change in PSU, C1 Sessions magically show the PSU updates in the C1 interface (after folder refresh).