Portfolios and versions

[wesstl]

Maybe I use Versions differently or more simply but it works for me as is. More flexibility is always welcome but I currently have no complaints about it.

[fbungarz]

Filter settings are a possibility. But then I would have to change the filter with every folder.

Hhhmm - I can see that this may be problematic in your current workflow. But I can also see, why it must be really difficult for Hert to accommodate everyone here. Different workflows and personal preferences - hard to get it right for everyone.

When I am in the folder category, I always see the main version in every folder. When I'm in a folder system, I would like to see exactly what the content is.

Are you sure you have Preferences set to "As set in Categories" and NOT "Always together as a Set" ???

When I am in Folder View, I see exactly all the files that are present in that folder. If there are several images of a version set, I see these files side-by-side. But if one or more of the subversions are in a different (sub-)folder these other files are of course not shown. In my case, the folder view shows exactly the files that are there, no less, no more.

I think that makes sense. In folder view it would be very confusing to see images that are not present in a particular folder. That is why I don't really understand what sense it makes to have a setting called "Always together as a Set". If that setting is enabled, PSu only ever shows the main version, even in a folder where that main version isn't present. To me that setting makes no sense. I find it confusing.

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I am not saying that filtering is necessarily the best solution, but it might resolve many of the current issues.
Perhaps there could be a "default view" combined with the option to use a filter?

The default view would be following the current logic:

Categories:
default = the set is collapsed and main version is shown, the little tabs allow switching individual thumbs, but a filter would be useful to quickly show a particular version only (currently possible via Filter - placeholder; not possible: a combination of different versions to be shown side-by-side or all versions side-by-side)

Portfolios:
default = only the specific version should be shown, which was added to the portfolio; this is how this works right now and would not need to change; still an option to combine filters for placeholders would be a nice addition

Folders:
default = only the files present in a folder are shown; if several files of the same version are present, these are shown side-by-side; this is how this works right now [if "As set in Categories" is selected in Preferences]; I am not sure if the ability to filter for versions not present in a particular folder makes much sense...

Timeline:
default = pretty much works like folder view, which makes sense, only the images that were taken at a specific date are shown [again only if "As set in Categories" is selected in Preferences]; unlike in Folder view, I think it may here be useful to also be able to filter for different versions - the reason: I frequently run into problems with dates when images have been edited outside PSu, thus I would love an option to fix the dates of an edited version by cascading that to subversions that changed

Ratings:
default = images shown according to their ratings, which makes sense as it is currently implemented; here adding an option to filter for versions with different ratings would only add confusion, unless (as in my case I disabled different ratings in the registry) - thus, in my case a filter would be useful

Colors:
default = images shown according to their color labels, again this makes sense and again for people using different color labels across images of one and the same version set a filter would be confusing, but for me (having disabled that option via Michal Weidner's registry hack) a filter would be a welcome addition

Types:
default = only particular file types are shown; currently a filter returns no results if that version has a different file type; this makes sense and should not be modified (e.g., I filter NEFs for print versions, but all my print versions are JPGs, which means that the filter returns no images that are NEFs assigned to my print version placeholder)

States:
default = only the images of a particular state are shown; same logic as for types (e.g., if all my JPGs in the catalog are "in-sync" the "out of sync" should not return any JPGs no matter what filter I use)

Details:
default = same logic as for Types and States, showing only the files that contain specific metadata ...

So - overall, at least for me the default "As set in Categories" already comes very close to what I want. For me the only aspect that is currently missing is an option to combine version filters. Currently, I can only filter for one single version and not combine several different ones. Especially in portfolios that might be a nice addition.

[Bongo]

When I am in the folder category, I always see the main version in every folder. When I'm in a folder system, I would like to see exactly what the content is.

Are you sure you have Preferences set to "As set in Categories" and NOT "Always together as a Set" ???

You're right. I set "Always Together as a Set".
I checked again. It worked until V6.
In a subfolder I expect this view as in V6:

hc_2318.png (55.73 KiB) Viewed 3199 times

I was able to mark and export all HD files.

Maybe I have to make friends with "As Set in Categories".

hc_2319.png (39.6 KiB) Viewed 3199 times

The color indicates should represent the togetherness of a set when all versions are in a folder. But that is not relevant for me and confuses me.

[gcorbin]

As a long term user of versions and stacks, I generally have PSU configured at "Always Together as a Set" as I mostly want to treat all members of the version set as a single item but occasionally I reconfigure PSU to "As Set in Categories" when I need to see all members of the version set. I think everyone is correct in this discussion that the correct way to handle versions depends on your needs at the time and in my opinion trying to hard code the behaviour will just not meet everyone’s needs.

I think the best solution is to move the "Always Together as a Set" and "As Set in Categories" version options from preferences and put these settings in a new icon “Show versions stacked” which would be put next to the existing “Show stacks stacked” icon on the image tab. The existing “Show stacks stacked” is simple, intuitive and necessary for using stacks. I believe the same requirement is true for versions. I expect this would be relatively easy to implement as it is just changing the GUI for existing functionality and it would be simple and logical for everyone to use and meet everyones needs.

Potentially, you might even be able to merge these two icons to become “Show versions and stacks stacked”. I currently cannot see a reason why not, but my gut feeling is that keeping version stacking and stack stacking separate is probably the right thing to implement.

[fbungarz]

Hi gcorbin,
I think it would be useful to have the option now in hidden in Preferences available directly from the menu bar, analogous to what is now possible in stacks.

Still, I think this doesn't quite address the differences between "stacks" and "versions".
Versions are (and always have been) derivatives from one and the same image - either the originals, or derivatives created for a specific purpose (email, online, print, etc.) ...
Stacks are insofar different as they are meant for grouping images that are not identical (or derived from one another), but still belong together - like a stack of different images that together form a panorama, or a stack of images used to create a gigh dynamic range image, or all the images from a focus stack ...

The different purpose of stack and versions, in my opinion, needs to be reflected in the functionality of the program. Thus, a quick option to "stack" or "unstack" images in a stack makes sense: the user might want to see the top image of a panorama only (the final panorama itself) or all the images used to compile the panorama.
For versions this is less useful, because one would rarely need the option not to see all images of a version set side-by-side (the version set expanded). Instead, one would probably want to see (and use) only a specific version, e.g., not the original NEF file, but the images that have been edited for printing.

Note that, because of the difference in functionality, I would also prefer using different terminologies:
stacks - stacked / unstacked
versions - expanded / collapsed

This is perhaps a little nit-picky, but I do think it is great that PSu is the only program that provides users with managing their images using these different concepts - both versions and stacks.
To me recognizing that the difference in concepts should best be reflected in how the program deals with the two versions vs. stacks makes quite a lot of sense.
Again, I believe most of the issues could be addressed by adding more versatility to filtering. An addition to quickly show versions collapsed vs. expanded would be a nice addition too and add even more flexibility to different workflows and needs.

Cheers,
Frank

[bimo]

…PSu is the only program that provides users with managing their images using these different concepts - both versions and stacks.

Frank, false impression - PSU is not the only program that knows and deals with both versions and stacks.

[fbungarz]

Hi Michael,

false impression - PSU is not the only program that knows and deals with both versions and stacks.

OK - say, I have no idea of any other program that does...