FastRawViewer interoperability

[marklevine]

These days I shoot RAW+JPG but I used to shoot RAW only, with medium quality embedded JPGs. The resulting image preview is inadequate for culling, so I'm trying to work FastRawViewer into my workflow. I'm dealing with images that are already imported into my PS database. I've added FastRawViewer as an External Application in preferences, so when I view a image with an inadequate preview, I can click Shift-4 (or whatever) to bring up the image in FastRawViewer.

The problem is: edits to ratings/titles/description that I make in FastRawViewer to do not show up in PS after performing a Metadata - Read Metadata from File operation. I can add stars in PS. I can add stars in FRV. But I cannot interoperate.

The preferences in PS for Synchronize Settings seem more advanced, so I hope I can resolve this issue by adjusting my PS preferences. However so far, no luck.

What I want to do: When a preview for a RAW file is fuzzy in PS, I'd like to bring the image up in FRV, add a star, return to PS, update metadata, then see the change.

What I am doing to workaround: I am moving crappy images to the FRV _rejected folder, returning to PS and performing a Verify Folder action. This is OK to identify rejects but doesn't help to use FRV to rate and color-code images.

Thanks in advance.

[sanphotgn]

In your workflow, Photo Supreme is writing to the RAW, JPG, or XMP?

I haven't shot RAW+JPG in a very long time, so I am not sure what is possible, in regards to writing, with Photo Supreme.

What version of FastRawViewer are you using?

[marklevine]

Thanks so much for getting involved! I'm using FRV ver 2.0.3. As for PS, I'm kinda new here and have a very difficult time wading through settings. I don't believe I changed anything regarding interoperability but I may have. There is a checkmark beside "Automatically write out Catalog changes to the image file". The XMP storage location is set to "According to the XMP Standard".

On the "Write settings" pane of the Synchronize settings, the only checked option is "Write catalog data to IDimages ICS scheme".

On the "Read settings" pane of the Synchronize settings, both boxes are checked.

Note that I don't believe that RAW+JPG is part of the problem. In fact, my newer settings of RAW+ High Quality JPG make it possible to do the bulk of my culling in Photo Supreme. It is just my older files that I'm having a problem with.

In your workflow, Photo Supreme is writing to the RAW, JPG, or XMP?

I haven't shot RAW+JPG in a very long time, so I am not sure what is possible, in regards to writing, with Photo Supreme.

What version of FastRawViewer are you using?

[sanphotgn]

After adding some metadata in Photo Supreme to one of the older files, go to the file in the file system (you can do this by right clicking on the file ... Locate in ...).

Do you see:

photo.RAW (where RAW will be your camera's raw extension)
photo.JPG
photo.XMP

And photo.XMP contains a modified date/time reflecting the recent update.

[marklevine]

You are taking me down a productive path. Here is what I did.

In Photo Supreme
PS1. Navigate to a folder containing raw images w/out JPG sidecars.
PS2. Locate in Windows Explorer
PS3. Note there are neither JPG nor XMP sidecars
PS4. Add stars to the image - still no XMP sidecars
PS5. Activate FastRawViewer while the file is selected

In FastRawViewer
FRV1. Add stars. Note that an XMP sidecar is created immediately.
FRV2. Close FastRawViewer

In Photo Supreme
PS6. On the image, Rightmouse - Metadata - Read Metadata from File
PS7. Note that the star rating is updated. Great!
PS8. With the image still selected, activate FRV again.

In FastRawViewer
FRV3. Press "X" to indicate that the image is rejected (but do NOT move to _rejected folder). Note that I also tried by clicking the Rejected checkbox to add a red label.
FRV4. Close FastRawViewer

In Photo Supreme
PS9. On the image, Rightmouse - Metadata - Read Metadata from File
PS10. Note that the color label is NOT updated - BOO! I tried changing Title and Description in FRV and those changes were also not transferred back to Photo Supreme when I read the metadata from the file. I don't know what changes I can make in FRV which will transfer back to PS.

I am getting close. As a workaround in FRV, I could set files I wish to delete to have a 5-star rating, allowing me to identify them in Photo Supreme but that is a kludge based on my lack of understanding about what is going on.

Almost there,
Mark

[marklevine]

More testing. I cannot get star ratings to transfer reliably from FRV to PS. I don't know what I did the first time but it not working in recent tests.

[sanphotgn]

Excellent tests.

If the programs are writing to different sidecar files (JPG, XMP), there won't be any communication between them. If you are writing directly to the RAW file, that may also cause issues.

In Photo Supreme
PS1. Navigate to a folder containing raw images w/out JPG sidecars.
PS2. Locate in Windows Explorer
PS3. Note there are neither JPG nor XMP sidecars
PS4. Add stars to the image - still no XMP sidecars
PS5. Activate FastRawViewer while the file is selected

In FastRawViewer
FRV1. Add stars. Note that an XMP sidecar is created immediately.
FRV2. Close FastRawViewer

Based on the above it appears FRV did not see the stars created in PS. If so, it appears PS wrote directly to the RAW file. Do you have Allow embedded metadata writing for RAW files enabled (under Preferences - Sync Settings - Write tab)?

[sanphotgn]

Testing here. RAW file, sidecar file is XMP. I am not writing data to the RAW file.

In Photo Supreme
PS1. Add stars to the image.
PS2. Open FastRawViewer while the file is selected

In FastRawViewer
FRV1. Stars are present.
FRV2. Add color label.
FRV3. Close FastRawViewer

In Photo Supreme
PS1. Color label is present.

In FRV, there is an XMP preference: Read Only XMP. This needs to be disabled to write to XMP.

[marklevine]

Allow embedded meta writing is NOT enabled.

Based on the above it appears FRV did not see the stars created in PS. If so, it appears PS wrote directly to the RAW file. Do you have Allow embedded metadata writing for RAW files enabled (under Preferences - Sync Settings - Write tab)?

[marklevine]

The FRV option Read Only XMP is disabled. I will pick this back up shortly and will focus on these settings. You are really helping point me in the right direction. Thanks again.

In FRV, there is an XMP preference: Read Only XMP. This needs to be disabled to write to XMP.

[marklevine]

SOLVED! Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. As I said above:

The XMP storage location is set to "According to the XMP Standard".

This is wrong. I changed the XMP Storage Location setting to "Always as a sidecar file" and I am now able to interoperate. Specifically, I am able to Reject in FastRawViewer, then read metadata from the file back into Photo Supreme where I can delete or otherwise continue processing.

[sanphotgn]

Glad to hear you found a solution.

If not solved, the next steps were to dive into the XMP preferences of both programs. Would I have thought the preference you found was the one ... I don't believe so, unless I had clicked on the drop down and saw the options.

The FRV manual contains the following section: "What happens when you use several applications simultaneously to modify XMP files". Worth a read.

Is your RAW file a DNG file?

[marklevine]

In the past I used Adobe's converter to create DNG from various formats, including PEF, ARW, and RAF. All the old files that caused me trouble were DNG converted from PEF. Nowadays, I retain my RAF files but the sidecar JPGs are high resolution, so I can usually cull in the Photo Supreme light box. (Yeah, I know that's a no-no!)

When I feel that the raw preview is inadequate, I can quickly launch FRV to make culling decisions, sending stars and tags back to PS for final processing. I have no need of passing rejects down to a special folder the way that FRV processes rejects. I am *not* a professional and don't need to take precautions that professional photographers require. It is easier for me to tag as rejected in FRV and pass that tag back to PS for filtering and deleting.

I hope other community members can learn from my pain!