Color Management on Mac?

MikeNaylor
Posts: 54
Joined: 13 Nov 16 14:40

Color Management on Mac?

Post by MikeNaylor » 01 Dec 17 17:31

I calibrate my iMac 27" Retina Display with an X-Rite ColorMonki every couple of weeks. Given PSU appears to generate previews based on that set in preferences, it therefore seems obvious I will need to copy the new icc profile from the correct location to that used by PSU (/System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/). I will then have to re-generate 25,000 previews, which is likely to take some considerable time.

However, all of the above is inconsequential, because the copy operation is not permitted.

sudo cp /Users/Mike/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/iMac_D65_201711301119.icc /System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/
Password:
cp: /System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/iMac_D65_201711301119.icc: Operation not permitted

Please can somebody suggest a better way, or is there a way to force PSU to use the system wide color management supplied by Apple?

Mke
Posts: 275
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by Mke » 01 Dec 17 19:32

PSU shouldn't (and doesn't) embed your monitor's colour profile in any images or previews - otherwise when you change monitors or share images with anyone else they're not going to look right.

What it should do is to use the colour profile to display the images and previews more accurately on your monitor. I don't use a Mac, but understand that they apply basic colour management settings across all apps, but that for optimum results PSU should tap into your ColorMonki file, as you are trying to get it to do. However you're not the first to point out that that can't currently be done (as you've found, there's a bug report at http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=3152)

MikeNaylor
Posts: 54
Joined: 13 Nov 16 14:40

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by MikeNaylor » 01 Dec 17 19:45

Thanks Mike. I'm relieved to hear I won't need to re-generate all the thumbs every time I calibrate my display. And yes, I am aware of the bug, but thought I'd try the sudo command for myself. So, the bottom line is: I can't view my images with the correct colours. Meanwhile, I've set PSU preferences to "Display P3", which gets closer than nothing.

MikeNaylor
Posts: 54
Joined: 13 Nov 16 14:40

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by MikeNaylor » 02 Dec 17 9:51

Mike: I beg to differ. The only way I've found to get somewhere close to the correct color is to have the panel set as shown below. This is will necessitate the rebuilding the thumbnails every time I recalibrate - assuming I can find a way to copy my display profile to /System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/. All of my imported images have the ProPhoto colour profile attached, but changing any of these settings and rebuilding the thumbnail, changes its appearance.
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Mke
Posts: 275
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by Mke » 02 Dec 17 22:10

Well that's interesting, never spotted that option at the bottom before - or I blanked it out as I really can't see why anyone would want to use it, even if it does happen to be helping you out on this occasion. Using it would indeed mean rebuilding all thumbnails when you change monitors, or if you want to use PSU on a laptop on the road.

It looks like the Mac's P3 color gamut (apparently designed to suit the xenon lamps in cinema digital film projectors) differs significantly to sRGB and Adobe RGB, so can imagine the extra importance of wanting to use your ColorMonki profile in PSU.

MikeNaylor
Posts: 54
Joined: 13 Nov 16 14:40

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by MikeNaylor » 03 Dec 17 11:38

The main reason professional print & design companies switched to Apple many years ago was because Apple integrated Color Management into their operating system. I don't know if Microsoft has caught up with it's more recent operating systems, but I do know that most photographers calibrate their monitors on a regular basis and are fully aware of the need to do so. PSU is built on a framework that apparently doesn't know how to utilise a system level Color Management service. However, PSU does provide an extremely comprehensive way of managing metadata that no other affordable DAM gets close to. This is why I'm migrating my entire LR catalog over - to help sort out the horrendous mess I've created over the years.

PSU's idea of Color Management is in my view unusable, so I've decided to ditch the idea of rendering thumbs to Display P3 and switch off PSU's Color Management all together. I'll have to get by viewing worthless previews and use another application for printing. I'm sure Hert will be aware of this shortcoming, so I'm looking forward and hoping his next release will implement Color Management correctly. Meanwhile, I have a lot of cataloging to get on with.

If anyone knows of workaround that perhaps re-routes PSU's system calls to the display, please let me know.

Hert
Posts: 20352
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by Hert » 03 Dec 17 11:46

As a workaround...copy the color profile file that you need from the Mac folder (that PSU currently doesn't check in) to the folder that PSU does check. The folder names are mentioned in the Mantis ticket
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

MikeNaylor
Posts: 54
Joined: 13 Nov 16 14:40

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by MikeNaylor » 03 Dec 17 12:13

Hert wrote:
03 Dec 17 11:46
As a workaround...copy the color profile file that you need from the Mac folder (that PSU currently doesn't check in) to the folder that PSU does check. The folder names are mentioned in the Mantis ticket
It's not possible to do this, because the destination folder is protected. In an case, as mentioned above, wouldn't this mean re-rendering all thumbs every time the monitor profile changed?

Hert
Posts: 20352
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by Hert » 03 Dec 17 12:42

A monitor profile is typically used for "displaying".
This means that PSU would need to apply the profile *each time* that the thumb is painted on screen. Of course that's not doable as the performance claim is way too high. You have the option to store thumbs to the database with or without color profile already applied. I would definitely use that option, especially when using a color profile that is so far off the display profile (like you do with ProPhoto profile).

Having to re-render all thumbs each time your monitor profile changes? Definitely not. Why would you? The thumbs aren't even big enough to see the minor change in your monitor profile after recalibration. You want to compensate for the ProPhoto profile, not for the monitor profile. It would even be ok for PSU to always store thumbnails in sRGB profile instead of using the configured monitor profile. In fact, that makes even more sense to me (now that I'm typing this).

Most importantly: think about the goal of thumbs: being able to identify the image.

When viewing an image on screen, the profile is applied each time the image is opened and that's where you need the accuracy...not in the thumbs

BTW; the folder may be protected but you have the password as super user (sudo -s)
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

MikeNaylor
Posts: 54
Joined: 13 Nov 16 14:40

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by MikeNaylor » 03 Dec 17 13:14

OK Hert, I appreciate your feedback, but wouldn't it be better if either PSU looked in the correct user folder, or PSU used the services provided by the OS, then perhaps it would be possible to manage the printer too (including selecting paper size and paper profile)?

Hert
Posts: 20352
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by Hert » 03 Dec 17 13:28

Of course that would be better. But as it isn't in the current version, that doesn't help you now.
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

MikeNaylor
Posts: 54
Joined: 13 Nov 16 14:40

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by MikeNaylor » 03 Dec 17 13:39

Quite so, and thanks for reminding me of the -s option. I've filed a feature request, http://mantis.idimager.com/view.php?id=3184, and hope you can implement this in the next version.

Mke
Posts: 275
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by Mke » 04 Dec 17 13:47

Hert wrote:
03 Dec 17 12:42
It would even be ok for PSU to always store thumbnails in sRGB profile instead of using the configured monitor profile. In fact, that makes even more sense to me (now that I'm typing this).

When viewing an image on screen, the profile is applied each time the image is opened and that's where you need the accuracy...not in the thumbs
FWIW, that's my view too...

MikeNaylor
Posts: 54
Joined: 13 Nov 16 14:40

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by MikeNaylor » 08 Dec 17 17:51

Hert wrote:
03 Dec 17 12:42
BTW; the folder may be protected but you have the password as super user (sudo -s)
Finally got round to trying the -s option, but it appears this isn't possible either...

Mikes-iMac:~ Mike$ sudo -s cp /Users/Mike/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/iMac_D65_201711301119.icc /System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles
Password:
cp: /System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/iMac_D65_201711301119.icc: Operation not permitted

Stephen
Posts: 535
Joined: 01 Oct 14 10:15

Re: Color Management on Mac?

Post by Stephen » 08 Dec 17 21:13

MikeNaylor wrote:
01 Dec 17 17:31
I calibrate my iMac 27" Retina Display with an X-Rite ColorMonki every couple of weeks.
Are you sure that the iMac 27" Retina Display can actually be calibrated correctly? Have you spoken to X-Rite?

(I personally use EIZO monitors with the X-Rite i1 Display calibrator.)
Never say never change, but using Mac since 2005. Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2604. I stand behind the interoperability of files between applications and systems.

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