Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

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R_Moeller
Posts: 4
Joined: 26 Nov 17 11:00

Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

Post by R_Moeller » 26 Nov 17 12:47

Hello,

I am testing Photo Supreme at the moment to see whether it fits to my particular workflow. The question I've got is about keywords. From what I've read in various forum posts it is not possible to assing sutructured Catalog entries during import based on flat entries in metadata dc:subject?

I have this functionality in Bridge and Lightroom but it seems not in PSu?

My workflow is based on Bridge/ACR/Photoshop and I have a bunch of scripts to handle Metadata with Bridge. I need a DAM software mainly to filter my files and to make small adjustments to metadata. Filtering in Bridge is not feasible for about 50000 files in a deep directory structure. I would use Lightroom but there is no way to prevent writing back hierarchical Keywords to dc:subject (and not only lr:hierarchicalSubject) when synchronizing metadata.

Hert
Posts: 20352
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

Post by Hert » 26 Nov 17 13:44

Photo Supreme will read keywords from dc:subject.
Why would you want to prevent software from writing complete keywords (like lr:hierarchicalSubject)???
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R_Moeller
Posts: 4
Joined: 26 Nov 17 11:00

Re: Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

Post by R_Moeller » 27 Nov 17 20:30

I have no problem when software is writing to the own specific namespace (like lr:hierarchicalSubject) but dc:subject by definition isn't for hierarchical keywords and flattening the hierarchical structure is definitly changing the representation in the UI of some programs (e.g. Adobe Bridge) where you end up with a lot more checked branches in the keyword catalog then in the unchanged state.
I have seen that PSu is not writing the complete structure to dc:subject. That's fine.
My problem is that I have no entry in lr:hierarchicalSubject because i don't use Lightroom to prevent it from messing with dc:subject. An it seem that PSu won't do a lookup of keywords in a custom hierarchical catalog but puts everyhing in a flat structure under "Miscellaneous". That way I would have to rebuild the assignment to a strutcured catalog manually.

Hert
Posts: 20352
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

Post by Hert » 28 Nov 17 1:41

You can use this script to merge matching catalog label names in an existing catalog structure.
http://repository.idimager.com/openreso ... 1931D48598
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R_Moeller
Posts: 4
Joined: 26 Nov 17 11:00

Re: Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

Post by R_Moeller » 28 Nov 17 17:39

@Hert
Many thanks for your answer.
Though from the description of the script
>> Find Duplicate Catalog Labels in the catalog hierarchy.
>> There's also an option to automatically merge the changes.
I don't know wether It'll do exactly what I need. But together with this: "Assign Comma Separated Labels" I believe I am able to build something that will get me going.

My second approach is to build lr:hierarchicalSubject by scripting Bridge but I am still struggeling with XML parsing in Adobe Extendedscript.

I will find out what's easier to do.

A bit nitpicking: It seems that PSu is writing duplicates to the array of dc:subject. If I import a photo to PSu that has as an example the following data in dc:subject:
dc:subject (0x200 : isArray)
[1] = "Afrika"
[2] = "Musiker"
[3] = "Tanz"
PSu is adding everything from dc:subject to the Misc section in Catalog. If I then assign entries with the same name from a hierarchical Catalog in PSu dc:subject ends up like this:
dc:subject (0x200 : isArray)
[1] = "Afrika"
[2] = "Afrika"
[3] = "Musiker"
[4] = "Musiker"
[5] = "Tanz"
So far it's not causing problems with any software that I use but it's a bit of redundant data.

Hert
Posts: 20352
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

Post by Hert » 28 Nov 17 18:48

Could it be that you have two catalog labels assigned, from different hierarchies?

Did you start using the Label Assignment Panel already? It will help you assign/unassign catalog labels (which translate to dc:subject and get rid of keyword editing in metadata/image details).
Ans did you read the Quick Manual for Cataloging already? Find it in the Help menu. It will help you understand how Catalog Labels interact with keywords. Catalog Labels in PSU gives you keywording "on steroids".
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tstoddard
Posts: 560
Joined: 07 Sep 12 12:51

Re: Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

Post by tstoddard » 28 Nov 17 22:31

Hi R_Moeller,

You might also want to check your preferences. I don't know this for sure, Hert might know, but if you have two labels with the same name and you assign them both to the same file, you could end up with duplicate keywords in the dc:subject field if your preferences are set to add keywords to existing keywords, as opposed replacing existing keywords. (I'm not in front of a computer with PSU installed so I'm not sure about the available settings)

You mentioned labels showing up under the Misc category and then building a hierarchy and assigning the labels from the hierarchy to your files. If you left the labels in the Mics category and created new labels with the same names under different categories, I can see why you might end up with duplicates. I'm not sure if PSU is programmed to catch duplicates in those instances or not. Hert would be able to answer that.

I recall that others have experienced the same issue with keywords being created under Miscellaneous when importing files that have keywords assigned by other software. I don't recall if they figured out why but I'm guessing it had something to do with the way the other software wrote that metadata to the files. From what you've written, I'm assuming that your files didn't have hierarchical keywords written to the lr:hierarchicalSubject field. That would explain why PSU wouldn't have been able to build a hierarchy and would have simply put the keywords under Miscellaneous. I think there is also a preference you can set to tell PSU whether or not to read and/or write hierarchical keywords. That could also be contributing to your issue.

By the way, I don't believe that the "lr" namespace is the exclusive property of Adobe Lightroom. It may have been created by them but that doesn't mean it's proprietary. It was meant to become a standard, which means they want and expect other software to use it. It has become the standard place to put hierarchical keywords so that programs that use them can read and write your hierarchy.
Tom Stoddard

R_Moeller
Posts: 4
Joined: 26 Nov 17 11:00

Re: Keywords from dc:subject and Catalog entries

Post by R_Moeller » 30 Nov 17 19:10

@ tstoddard
From what you've written, I'm assuming that your files didn't have hierarchical keywords written to the lr:hierarchicalSubject field. That would explain why PSU wouldn't have been able to build a hierarchy and would have simply put the keywords under Miscellaneous. I think there is also a preference you can set to tell PSU whether or not to read and/or write hierarchical keywords.
That's correct. I had no entries in lr:hierarchicalSubject because Lightroom will also change dc:subject when writing back XMP and there is no way to prevent that. The duplicate entries in dc:subject are definitely coming from Miscellaneous and afterwards setting entries in my hierarchy.

I have now built a script for Bridge to create the hierarchical Keywords in lr:hierarchicalSubject from the entries of dc:subject. So when i now import to PSu I don't get entries to Miscellaneuos and everything goes to my hierarchy. That way my entries in dc:subject are kept in the original form. I'd say that has solved my problems.
By the way, I don't believe that the "lr" namespace is the exclusive property of Adobe Lightroom. It may have been created by them but that doesn't mean it's proprietary. It was meant to become a standard, which means they want and expect other software to use it. It has become the standard place to put hierarchical keywords so that programs that use them can read and write your hierarchy.
I agree. But I had no problems with lr:hierarchicalSubject but with Lightroom changing dc:subject without any way to prevent that. Shouldn't be the decision of software development to do that. Theres simply a preference setting in Lightroom missing to switch it off.

@Hert
As mentioned above - Yes, there were the same Names in Miscellaneous and in my hierarchy. Anyways a check for duplicate entries in dc:subject would be good - although by the way I do it now it will no longer happen for me.

Yes, I know the Assignment Panel and I understand that I even can set Catalog entries to set metadata that I can choose, But at the moment it's not cataloging some files for me but importing about 50000 files which already have keywords. Would be a nightmare to need to work that over.

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