Colour management, again...

simato73
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Nov 16 23:10

Colour management, again...

Post by simato73 » 04 Feb 17 23:09

Hi,

As others before, I have problems of PSu showing colours not consistently to many other applications I use.
I am on a Mac, I use a colour managed workflow and regularly profile my monitor (using a Colormunki).
The vast majority of my files are AdobeRGB; my monitor displays 99% of the AdobeRGB space.
For example, see below a crop of the same image displayed by PSu on the left and Iridient on the right:
crop.png
crop.png (822.43 KiB) Viewed 1412 times
I have read the other posts and I am clear that "input profile" in the colour management preferences indicates the colour space of the image; this should be left normally as sRGB since if a colour space is embedded in the image this information will have priority.
The "output profile" should be the profile of my monitor, according to the explanations I read in other threads.
[slight aside: this is a bit weird on a Mac. In OS X the system manages colours and if a colour space is assigned to an image and the monitor has its own profile, all is taken care of, therefore solving for example problems like displaying simultaneously on multiple monitors]
Regardless of my aside, the drop down choices in "input profile" does not show my monitor profile! It does show other profiles that exist in the same directory, but not the one I need. Please have a look at the following screensots:

My monitor profile is ~Library/Colorsync/Profiles/DELL U2711_D65.icc:
Dell.png
Dell.png (52.96 KiB) Viewed 1412 times
Color management settings in PSu with profile drop down open:
Settings.png
Settings.png (120.89 KiB) Viewed 1416 times
I don't understand why I see so few icc profiles in the drop down when I know there are a lot more in my Profiles directory.

Any suggestions on how to solve this would be much appreciated.
Last edited by simato73 on 04 Feb 17 23:13, edited 1 time in total.
Simone

simato73
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Nov 16 23:10

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by simato73 » 04 Feb 17 23:10

Attachments should be sorted now.
Simone

simato73
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Nov 16 23:10

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by simato73 » 05 Feb 17 0:00

With a bit more tinkering I am finding that in my case colours are displayed consistently to other applications if sRGB is chosen both as input and output profile. Display colour management must be on; the Use colour management to generate thumbnails tick box seems to make no difference (tried re-generating the thumbnails).

This is not what I expected based on previous knowledge and reading other threads, but it seems to work...
Simone

Mke
Posts: 249
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by Mke » 06 Feb 17 13:54

simato73 wrote:My monitor profile is ~Library/Colorsync/Profiles/DELL U2711_D65.icc:
Your monitor should be using the profile generated by your Colormunki.
simato73 wrote:Color management settings in PSu with profile drop down open:
sRGB is likely to be fine for input - it only applies if your processing software hasn't applied a profile to the processed image. If you're looking at unprocessed JPEGs then you'll have set a superior profile (likely Adobe RGB) in your camera if it will let you, right? And color space isn't applicable to RAW file data, only to the embedded preview. Your monitor profile isn't an option because the monitor is an output device.

Can't see your output profile, but it should be your Colormunki profile again.

Overall, remember that your Colormunki is correcting your display to show photos as accurately as it can to you, so that you can see images to their best advantage along with the 'true' effects of any changes you make, and so that any changes are correctly saved. You don't want to embed your Colormunki profile in an image, because that profile is only relevant to your current display, which you may not have next year, and which won't apply to anyone you share the photos with - which is why you export it to a standard profile - sRGB if it's heading for the web, for example.
simato73 wrote:I don't understand why I see so few icc profiles in the drop down when I know there are a lot more in my Profiles directory.
Maybe because it only displays profiles applicable to your monitor, and the other profiles are for printers? If so I guess the others should show up if you switch to the printing tab.

HCS
Posts: 145
Joined: 19 Feb 14 22:08

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by HCS » 06 Feb 17 16:51

Based on Simato's post, i'm checking my installation. However, my ICC profile doesn't show up in the drop down for output profile.

Where should it be located for PSU to see it (on a Mac) for PSU to see it? Does anyone know?

Preston B
Posts: 389
Joined: 24 Feb 10 19:01
Location: Columbia, CA

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by Preston B » 06 Feb 17 18:07

@HCS and @simato73: Take a look at http://www.colourmanagement.net/advice/ ... c-profiles. Perhaps it will help.
--P
Preston Birdwell
Columbia, CA

Photo Supreme on Puget Systems Obsidian: Win 10-64 bit Intel i5Quad Core 3.3Ghz 32GB RAM, and Puget Systems Traverse Laptop. Chamonix 4x5 and Nikon D-7100.

Please visit my web site at www.gildedmoon.com

HCS
Posts: 145
Joined: 19 Feb 14 22:08

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by HCS » 06 Feb 17 18:20

Thanks Preston.

I'm not in doubt where they are on the system. I don't know where they have to be for PSU to show them in the drop down in Preferences - Color Management.

Hert
Posts: 20255
Joined: 13 Sep 03 7:24

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by Hert » 06 Feb 17 18:27

PSU for macOS looks in /System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/
This is a User-to-User forum which means that users post questions here for other users.
Feature requests, change suggestions, or bugs can be logged in the ticketing system

Preston B
Posts: 389
Joined: 24 Feb 10 19:01
Location: Columbia, CA

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by Preston B » 06 Feb 17 19:19

In my installation of PSu on Windows 10, PSu color management shows my monitor profile just fine. Given that, PSu appears to look in the following path for Windows 7 and later...

Windows\system32\spool\drivers\color
--P
Preston Birdwell
Columbia, CA

Photo Supreme on Puget Systems Obsidian: Win 10-64 bit Intel i5Quad Core 3.3Ghz 32GB RAM, and Puget Systems Traverse Laptop. Chamonix 4x5 and Nikon D-7100.

Please visit my web site at www.gildedmoon.com

HCS
Posts: 145
Joined: 19 Feb 14 22:08

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by HCS » 06 Feb 17 21:20

Hert wrote:PSU for macOS looks in /System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/
Thanks Hert.

I see, that's indeed where my own profiles aren't.

Could the place where PSU looks be made configurable?

Or conversely, how could i copy my own profiles to this directory? OSX doesn't let me (not in Finder, not in terminal, not even with sudo).

simato73
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Nov 16 23:10

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by simato73 » 08 Feb 17 9:02

Mke wrote:Your monitor should be using the profile generated by your Colormunki.
That was the case originally but at a later stage I saved the result of the profiling with the name I am currently using.
So DELL U2711_D65 is the current profile.

The image I am looking at is a Fuji XT2 raw file.
I agree that the monitor profile should not be embedded in whatever image I work with. This is where the difference between colour space and colour profile becomes apparent. I should use a device independent colour space for embedding in my image, not a colour profile, which is device-dependent.

However from reading in other posts I understood the "output profile" is - rather confusingly - not for embedding in files, but for displaying on the monitor. I would appreciate Hert correcting me if my understanding is incorrect.

Also thanks to Hert for clarifying where PSu looks for icc profiles, I will see if I can manage to copy them to that System directory, in which case I will share how to for HCS's and other peoples benefit.
Simone

Mke
Posts: 249
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by Mke » 08 Feb 17 14:40

simato73 wrote:However from reading in other posts I understood the "output profile" is - rather confusingly - not for embedding in files, but for displaying on the monitor. I would appreciate Hert correcting me if my understanding is incorrect.
At http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?t=22852#p102777 he says:
  • "Your output profile is the profile how your image will be displayed on the output device (your monitor). If you're using a color managed workflow then select your monitor color profile here. If you don't have a monitor profile then set this to sRGB which is the best second alternative."

sanphotgn
Posts: 356
Joined: 26 Aug 07 18:06

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by sanphotgn » 08 Feb 17 15:00

Using the Tips feature in PSU:
Input.png
Input.png (31.1 KiB) Viewed 1057 times
Output.png
Output.png (35.91 KiB) Viewed 1057 times
I typically calibrate every month (or so) and include the date in the calibration file name.
Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2589 (64 bits) (Windows)

Mke
Posts: 249
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by Mke » 08 Feb 17 15:10

While I'm not an expert in the subject, for completeness I should add that, even if you have you've set your monitor to use your Colormunki settings in Windows 'Device Settings' (so it adjusts your monitor globally across all programs) you should still use the color managed settings described above. That's because the 'global' setting only adjusts the video driver's white point and Tone Response Curve - a quick fix improvement.

Colour managed applications (with colour management switched on, of course) go much further and access and apply the full Colormunki profile, using this to accurately adjust the colour space to your monitor, so displaying your images as accurately as possible.

There's a somewhat fuller explanation of this is a forum post here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/ ... il58804586

simato73
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Nov 16 23:10

Re: Colour management, again...

Post by simato73 » 08 Feb 17 19:10

Mke wrote:While I'm not an expert in the subject, for completeness I should add that, even if you have you've set your monitor to use your Colormunki settings in Windows 'Device Settings' (so it adjusts your monitor globally across all programs) you should still use the color managed settings described above. That's because the 'global' setting only adjusts the video driver's white point and Tone Response Curve - a quick fix improvement.

Colour managed applications (with colour management switched on, of course) go much further and access and apply the full Colormunki profile, using this to accurately adjust the colour space to your monitor, so displaying your images as accurately as possible.

There's a somewhat fuller explanation of this is a forum post here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/ ... il58804586
I am a bit wary of doing that because the whole Mac OS X is colour managed, and this seems like applying colour correction twice.
However there is no risk in trying.
First however I have to copy icc profiles to the location detailed by Hert.
Simone

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