Workflow

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pgfrancis01
Posts: 1
Joined: 24 Dec 16 0:22

Workflow

Post by pgfrancis01 » 30 Dec 16 0:59

My current workflow is:
1. Ingest images RAW + JPEGS into capture folder (date based folder structure) and catalog using PSU
2. Cull to remove:
- JPEGS not required (some retained due to use of art filters etc)
- out of focus
- poor composition
- etc
3. Rename files
4. Add metadata and geotag
5. Identify images suitable for further work (use star rating + colour label = select)
6. Export images set to "select" to working folder (date based folder structure)
7. Use Capture One Pro to edit photos and export final images as required (cataloging of exported images not required)
8. In Capture One edit Colour label to indicate images has been processed

A couple of questions:
- How do I make sure any metadata in step 4 is retained especially any star ratings, colour labels, when I export images?
- What do I need to do to reflect any colour label changes made in step 8 to PSU catalog?

Stephen
Posts: 493
Joined: 01 Oct 14 10:15

Re: Workflow with C1 (Capture One)

Post by Stephen » 01 Jan 17 20:33

PSu and C1 do not communicate well with each other so I would not rely on any meta data or colour and stars ratings to carry over in either direction.

I always export my C1 edited files to a different folder and then use the verify folder function in PSu to find them. How ever you do it, you can always rate the new imports once they are back in PSu and verify the assigned labels at that time.

I find this the most reliable way to work with C1. Having said that, I’ m on the road and have not yet been able to discover the latest features in C1-9. Now even C1-10 has been released, so I’m a few steps behind.

You will find other tips in using C1 by searching this forum.

Using Mac, so it might be different to Windows.
Never say never change, but using Mac since 2005. Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2589. I stand behind the interoperability of files between applications and systems.

HCS
Posts: 144
Joined: 19 Feb 14 22:08

Re: Workflow

Post by HCS » 03 Jan 17 15:36

I would advise to choose a system of record for either action, cataloguing and raw conversion/editing.

I start my work in PSU, i import the images (downloading from card to HDD via MAC finder). I cull images in PSU (even though i don't throw away any file), by rating the selects with 1 star.

I "send" those to CO (CO in session mode) and edit to taste. No need to export files, but if done, those will also be catalogued. Raws in PSU which have been edited in CO are marked with a keyword to reflect this. Images posted or published anywhere are marked as such with a keyword as well. I have PSU configure to approximate the edits in CO.

I try to maintain discipline to only manage files in PSU and only do conversion in a raw converter like CO (i also use others).

Hope this helps.

vkfoto
Posts: 68
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

Re: Workflow

Post by vkfoto » 05 Jan 17 20:47

Looks like here is a method to suit everyone's idea of how it should be done. Me, I do the following:

Using DownLoader Pro, I extract the images from the SD card, renaming them to a standard "yyyy-mm-dd-sequence#". DLP also creates a new folder named "yyyy-mm-dd job-name" to store the images.
Then I use BreezeBrowser to quickly cull the lot, mostly out of focus, miss-aimed (feet, sky, etc.) and other technical glitches.
Next I move the out-of-camera JPG images to their own folder. These are saved in case I want to see how the camera interpreted the scene. Still thinking about the need to really save a RAW as well as the corresponding JPG file. Do it more by habit at this time.
If I need the images right-away, I process the RAWs first in DXO, export the needed images and then use PSu to add appropriate meta data to the lot.
If not, PSu gets the images to tag them and latter I'll process them as needed.

As you can see, PSu is only used to manage the labels (keywords). Because of the overhead of importing and then deleting, I only give PSu those images that have passed the first culling done in BB, that way PSu only gets those images that should be in for the duration.

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fbungarz
Posts: 3117
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Galapagos, Ecuador

Re: Workflow

Post by fbungarz » 05 Jan 17 21:37

Just noticed, nobody tried answering your questions, but instead posted their own, very different workflows... :?
A couple of questions:
- How do I make sure any metadata in step 4 is retained especially any star ratings, color labels, when I export images?
XMP (in-)compatibility is indeed a big problem.
Outside PSu, other programs need to read color labels correctly. That can be a problem, if you choose to change the names of the color labels in PSu Preferences. The color labels unfortunately are not stored with their "color" but their name, which means, different programs often interpret them differently. For star ratings that should not be the case. Programs like Lightroom or Capture One should pick those up. Only DxO apparently uses a different way of ratings.
One great way to make sure you preserve ratings and color labels (or any other XMP data) that you assigned in PSu is to use versioning. If you keep a "master version" that is never touched/modified outside PSu you can use that version to cascade the metadata back to any (sub-)version that was modified/generated outside PSU.
To be able to do that, you will only slightly need to modify your existing workflow: keep the JPG and use it as the main version. When you modify/develop your RAWs you can then cascade the metadata from the main version back into these modified files. Voliá - the star and color ratings assigned in PSu are back to what they were...
- What do I need to do to reflect any colour label changes made in step 8 to PSU catalog?
Now that is the opposite to your previous request, right?
The most simple advice: "don't ..."
Simply use PSu for the task of rating and assigning color labels.
Well, probably you won't like that response, right? Else you would not have asked "how to..."

So, here is the thing: if you modify a file outside PSu, the changes to that file can only be picked up, if PSu is running. That is not convenient and besides even then this kind of file-monitoring actually does not work well at all.
In any case: if you have PSu closed, it cannot "see" any of these changes and you need to force it to "read" them. This means: you need to refresh the thumbnails AND you need to read the changed metadata from the file.
Simple? Well actually not. Stephen warned you already that CaptureOne and PSu don't play well together - mainly because CaptureOne does not seem to think it is necessary to adhere to metadata standards. Instead they have the reputation to badly mess with metadata.
This means: IF you read metadata from files changed outside (e.g., CaptureOne) you are running the risk that (a) some changes won't be understood accurately (the color labels are one notorious example) and (b) some of the metadata might have been corrupted/deleted/destroyed by third party editors (like: CaptureOne!). This means accepting/tolerating a certain risk of metadata loss - in my opinion another good argument to keep a main version (an untouched, never modified master version) as a safeguard.

Well, all that said - try experimenting on some test files and check the results of the different strategies carefully, then choose what suits you best. Perhaps, preserving all metadata is not your highest priority, then you'll get away, probably, with simply making sure your color labels and star rating changes are seen, when you read them back (via CTRL+ALT+S) in PSu. Else, if your metadata are sacrosanct, avoid changing them outside PSu and upon return to PSu cascade them back into files that potentially might have messed with them...

All the best,
Frank

HCS
Posts: 144
Joined: 19 Feb 14 22:08

Re: Workflow

Post by HCS » 06 Jan 17 19:34

fbungarz wrote:Just noticed, nobody tried answering your questions, but instead posted their own, very different workflows... :?
Well ... i doubt that :D

If you'd read my post, you'd find as an opening sentence "I would advise to choose a system of record for either action, cataloguing and raw conversion/editing." This indicates that i believe pushing on in a direction that fulfills Murphy's law to let things go wrong isn't helping someone.

I'd like the OP to have a look again at his workflow and have a good thought about which function is done by which application. I am a firm believer of the thought that one function should only be performed by one application, i.e. one system of record.

Then i indeed went on to explain my own workflow, as it also uses PSU and CO, to demonstrate the above concept.

Hope this helps explain my explanation. Obviously, this is not a stab at Frank (i apologize if it reads like this), but an attempt to clarify my own post.

As always, YMMV.

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fbungarz
Posts: 3117
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Galapagos, Ecuador

Re: Workflow

Post by fbungarz » 06 Jan 17 19:51

Hi HCS,
no offense taken and sorry if I came across a bit "reductionist" :mrgreen:
I certainly did not mean to talk badly about anyone's workflow. There is no golden rule how to best achieve one's goal. Any workflow needs to address the specific needs of a specific user.
I basically agree with your statements that ideally one should best use an application for the purpose it was designed for or at least where it performs best.
But I do understand the need to do rating and color labeling across different programs. You edit an image and then often decide it wasn't quite as bad as you thought (thus increase its star rating) or you decide it hasn't quite been worth it (and thus downgrade it). It is kind of inconvenient if you can only do that in the one program performs best at databasing (PSu) and not also in the program you have been using to just edit that file...

:wink:
Cheers,
Frank

Stephen
Posts: 493
Joined: 01 Oct 14 10:15

Re: Workflow with C1 (Capture One)

Post by Stephen » 05 May 17 15:22

In fact, I too mentioned that these 2 applications don't communicate well, which rather obviated going into more detail.
Stephen wrote:
01 Jan 17 20:33
PSu and C1 do not communicate well with each other so I would not rely on any meta data or colour and stars ratings to carry over in either direction.
The GOOD news is that Capture One version 9 'appears' (careful formulation) to have solved some metadata problems. Images processed in C1-9 now retain the camera data, which PSu terms 'Technical' in the Details panel.

Keywords are still off though, so when I pull edited images back into PSu, the first thing I do is to delete all the keywords / labels. (I know that keywords & labels are different but for simplicity I have bundled them. As I colour code the edited images on 'import to PSu' and put them in a subfolder under the originals, by clicking on the right oval button, it is easy to get originals and edits shown together. Then I select both and add the missing / keywords labels. It's not an ideal solution, but it solves the problem.

Capture One is now on version 10, which I have not yet tested.
Never say never change, but using Mac since 2005. Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2589. I stand behind the interoperability of files between applications and systems.

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