What is your workflow?

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Larry56
Posts: 335
Joined: 05 Jul 10 6:57

What is your workflow?

Post by Larry56 » 06 Apr 15 16:47

Most of my photos are now shot in RAW and I'm still trying to settle on a good workflow. I'm trialing Lightroom 5 and have DxO 10 and of course PS3. Briefly, I've imported the files into a single folder which is set up by year with PS, culled in PS, and then developed in either DxO or LR as needed. Developed jpgs or tiffs are kept in the same folder as the RAWs.

I'm interested in how others have their workflow set up using PS. IE, do you keep RAWs in a separate folder and develop in an external converter or both in the same folder? Do you import and cull in another program and in add to PS? I'm sure there's a lot of other options I'd like to know about. Mind giving me an overview?

Stephen
Posts: 515
Joined: 01 Oct 14 10:15

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by Stephen » 06 Apr 15 17:12

<<<Most of my photos are now shot in RAW and I'm still trying to settle on a good workflow.
I'm battling with this right now.

<<<Briefly, I've imported the files into a single folder which is set up by year with PS
What I did too.

<<<Developed jpgs or tiffs are kept in the same folder as the RAWs.
I have put all project based developed files into a separate folder on a different drive:
1. Same folder was too difficult to locate given my ingression procedure and also unnecessary given the power of the PS database
2. Data security reasons

I have been reading The DAM Book by Peter Krogh, but unfortunately the last version was 2009 and an update is still pending. It has a mountain of valuable tips, but I wonder whether he might streamline his extremely comprehensive (I call it complicated) methodology in the next version.

<<<do you keep RAWs in a separate folder and develop in an external converter or both in the same folder? Do you import and cull in another program and in add to PS?
See above.
I import everything into PS first. I then cull, develop and edit (mostly in Capture One, but also in Aperture). I have so far kept all developed files in separate folders but I am now investigating how to communicate this info back to PS, so that PS can also serve as a database of the best edited files and not merely as a repository for everything.

My methodology has lots of holes which I need to patch, but was the only practical way that I could work under time constraints and lacking knowledge of a better way.

I hope that this thread bear fruit for all.
Never say never change, but using Mac since 2005. Photo Supreme 3.3.0.2589. I stand behind the interoperability of files between applications and systems.

Preston B
Posts: 390
Joined: 24 Feb 10 19:01
Location: Columbia, CA

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by Preston B » 06 Apr 15 21:02

Here's my workflow for digitally captured images...

I am using a Nikon camera and shoot in RAW.

1. Import images from the camera into Nikon View NX2.
2. Initial cull is done in NX2
3. Import Images into PSu in folders for Month and Year
4. Use a "ReName" macro to rename the images.
5. Perform a second and more detailed cull.
6. Assign appropriate labels.

Edit: January 12, 2017--

1. Import RAW files from the camera directly into PSu.
2. Initial cull is done in PSu
3. Use a "ReName" macro to rename the images.
4. Perform a second and more detailed cull.
5. Assign appropriate labels to images I plan to keep.

Once the steps above are completed, I use Adobe Camera RAW for some editing, if desired, and then save my files as Adobe *.psd files. These are my 'master files' and are stored in folders by month and year, in a different folder (each file name is of the form: N-D7100-nnnn-mf.psd. The "mf" shows me it's a 'master file')

I use Photoshop CC-2017 to edit my 'master files'. From these 'master files' I create 'print' files and/or jpeg 'Images to Post' files. These files are stored in separate folders.

I also create "Portfolios" in PSu for the files for a given month; RAW, Master Files, Print, Images to Post. Each image is then added to the appropriate portfolio. This makes the images very easy to find. (I no longer do this step, since it just created extra work)

--P
Last edited by Preston B on 12 Jan 17 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
Preston Birdwell
Columbia, CA

Photo Supreme on Puget Systems Obsidian: Win 10-64 bit Intel i5Quad Core 3.3Ghz 32GB RAM, and Puget Systems Traverse Laptop. Chamonix 4x5 and Nikon D-7100.

Please visit my web site at www.gildedmoon.com

Mke
Posts: 256
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by Mke » 07 Apr 15 20:02

My basic workflow was:

1. Create a folder (for finished JPEGs) and subfolder (for the RAW files) - that way the images display the way I prefer in Photo Supreme folder view
2. Copy files from camera to the subfolder using Windows Explorer
3. Delete any obvious duds in Windows Photo Viewer
4. Bulk-rename the images using Free Commander (2009 version)
5. [if time permits] Process the images using DxO, saving the finished files to the parent folder
6. Import images into Photo Supreme [versioning them if processed] & apply a standard profile in 'details'
7. Use lightbox on selected files to choose versions to keep / delete (Photo Supreme)
8. Run a slideshow in Photo Supreme & maybe reprocess a couple of files in DxO
9. Apply and cascade GEO tags (Photo Supreme)
10. Catalog files (Photo Supreme)
11. Backup everything
12. Delete images from camera
13. [if no time earlier] Process the images using DxO, import, version, apply profile, cascade GEO tags
14. Rate selected images / add to collections, etc (Photo Supreme)

November 2016 update
Since the above, this has been revised to avoid the need to cascade metadata to the finished files, and it is now:

1. Create a folder (for finished JPEGs) and subfolder (for the RAW files) - that way the images display the way I prefer in Photo Supreme folder view
2. Copy files from camera to the subfolder using Windows Explorer
3. Delete any obvious duds in Windows Photo Viewer
4. Bulk-rename the images using Free Commander (2009 version)
5. Import images into Photo Supreme & apply a standard profile in 'details'
6. Apply GEO tags while locations are fresh in my mind (Photo Supreme)
7. Catalog files (Photo Supreme)
8. Backup everything
9. Delete images from camera

then, usually later:
10. Use lightbox on selected files to choose versions to keep / delete (Photo Supreme)
11. Process the images using DxO, saving the finished files (which will have inherited the metadata) to the parent folder
12. Version files
13. Run a slideshow (Photo Supreme) & reprocess any files as necessary (in DxO)
14. Rate selected images / add to collections, etc (Photo Supreme)
Last edited by Mke on 08 Nov 16 6:35, edited 8 times in total.

tstoddard
Posts: 556
Joined: 07 Sep 12 12:51

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by tstoddard » 07 Apr 15 22:47

It is interesting to see how different everyone's workflows are. Mine has a tendency to continue changing over time but right now it is this:
  1. I also shoot to raw (Nikon NEF files).
  2. I use FPV (FastPictureViewer) currently, but have used PSU and might do so again in the future, to do the following:
    1. Preview images and select which ones to import (or not to import)
    2. Import (transfer from memory card) and rename raw files into a folder structure using yyyy\mm\yyyy-mm-dd for the folders and subfolders and a custom renaming rule specific to the camera
    3. Mirror the import onto an external hard drive using the same folder structure and renaming rules so that I can always find the untouched original if I need to.
    (I have my configuration set up so that I can accomplish the exact same thing in PSU as in FPV but I use FPV because of an issue I've had when using PSU to mirror to my external drive. For some reason, PSU sometimes does not write the first file to the external drive. I think is happens when the drive is inactive before I start the import. I end up having to manually confirm that it got written each time I do an import and then having to manually copy the missing file if it didn't work. I could probably live with this but FPV does a great job and has some additional functionality that I sometimes use so I just use it. It's a shame because it creates a separate step for me.)
  3. When I use FPV to ingest my raw files, then I have to import them into PSU. Since they are already renamed and in the appropriate folder structure, I just import them into my catalog and apply a detail profile with some standard information. There are times when I'm anxious to output or share certain images so I will open my folders in PhotoNinja and process some of the raw files that I want to share first, before importing them into PSU.
  4. After importing them into PSU, I usually assign labels to all of my files before doing anything else. I sometimes need to come back later and add labels or make changes but usually not. I normally work in folder view so that I can be sure to work through all of the images I've imported. The "In last import" tab rarely works consistently for me so I don't rely on it. In this latest build of PSU, if I've output any jpegs before I do the import, I usually only get one image to show up in the "In last import" tab even when I've import 100 or more files. I have no idea why this happens but I don't need that functionality so I just ignore it.
  5. Now that all images are imported and labeled, I start to go through them one at a time and look closely at them to decide which ones I want to process. I don't process all of them. I should probably cull the ones that I decide not to process but I have plenty of harddrive space so I don't worry about it. I never know when I might want to come back and work on some of the unprocessed ones anyway. I use full screen view to look at the individual images. When I see one I like, I hit the ESC key and then click on the app shortcut to open PhotoNinja (or sometimes GIMP or RawTherapee or even NX-D). I process the raw and generate a jpg which is saved in the same folder as the raw file and is named the same with a different extension. If I generate additional jpg's I just add a one digit suffix to the file name.
  6. When I'm finished the processing of all of the files (or at least as many as I plan to do in that session) I verify the folder and import the newly created jpg's. I detect versions in the process and create version sets. I used to set my raw files as main versions because that just seems logical to me but I've found that PSU really favors having jpgs as raw so I've finally given in to that and conformed to PSU's bias.
  7. Next I decide what I want to do with the images. Often, I just select the processed jpg's and upload them to Google+ or OneDrive or Flickr. If I want to combine images from multiple folders into an album, I will either create a portfolio collection or I will just use the Image Basket to temporarily segregate the images I want to upload into my online album. I should probably create portfolio collections more often but I don't really see the advantage of doing it unless I plan to use Flickr. Since I'm the only one that ever views my images using PSU, I find that my time is better spent organizing my online albums rather than organizing portfolio collections. I may regret that someday
  8. I also try to rate all of my images. Sometimes I do that before sharing them, other times I'll do it later. It is something I tend to procrastinate on for some reason. I find rating my images difficult. To do it, I use full screen mode again. I go through each image using arrow keys. I use the CTL+R key combination to display the stars on the bottom of the screen and use the number keys to select the number of stars I want to assign. I find using the keyboard to do all of this to be pretty convenient. I do use the mouse occasionally if I want to zoom in on a specific part of the image.
That's pretty much it for my workflow. I occasionally output images to folders so that I can upload them to printing sites or do other things with them and sometimes email them directly from PSU to others. I rarely use any of of PSU's adjustment functions. I think the red eye correction is probably the one I get the most use from. I rely on Windows file history to back up the jpg's that get created during my processing but I don't worry too much about that because I know I can always get my raw back and process it again if I need to.
Tom Stoddard

vkfoto
Posts: 68
Joined: 19 Oct 16 3:51

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by vkfoto » 05 Nov 16 17:52

Most interesting to read how other people are managing their pictures. I'm new to this DAM world so my methods might not be the best but they have served me for many years.

Now that I've started with PSu, I'll have to see if there will be any changes. For what it's worth, here is what I've been doing.

Using DownLoad Pro, I copy the RAW files from my SD card. A new folder is created for each day yyyy-mm-dd <short desc>.
Each file is renamed as it is transferred yyyy-mm-dd-h-m-s plus a unique number if more than one file was made in one second.
The best are selected and processed. TIFF copies are made to a subfolder, own for each major theme or subject.
Then for those I want to share, JPG versions are made (large medium or small depending on the destination) each in their own subfolder.
Now that I've moved to a non-distructive RAW processor, DxO, the TIFF intermediate files will be omitted.

With PSu added to the workflow, I'm starting to label the pictures. This could eliminate the need for so many subfolders since the keywords can be used to classify logically what had to be done physically in the past. And since the DxO exporter can add a descriptive suffix to each file, the need for separate JPG folders could also be eliminated.

Overall, I see a slightly more streamlined workflow and fewer nested folders as well as fewer duplicate files since one file can carry multiple keywords.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As I get more into the program, I see that there will be some changes in the workflow. I still tend to shoot RAW+JPG. Either I'll version those two or just move the OOC JPG files out to their own folder. They are only for use in case I need a quick output before I have time to process the RAW files. That is done in DxO. With the ability to apply labels/keywords to individual images, there will not be the need to create multiple subfolders by subject/theme any more. That will be a great space saver.

Since DxO makes non-destructive changes, saving the recipe in a DOP file, I anticipate using DxO exclusively for processing and output, reserving PSu to manage the labelng / keyword assignment. The only way I see around that is to have DxO create TIFF files with all the changes applied and bringing them back into PSu to use as a base for output but that seems like a long detour that doesn't gain anything and just increases the work involved. I look forward to hearing from others how they manage this aspect.

simato73
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Nov 16 23:10

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by simato73 » 11 Jan 17 23:29

I am re-building my workflow after dropping Aperture as my DAM. I have not used Aperture for RAW development and image editing for years, since I moved from Nikon to Fuji. I now use Iridient for RAW development and mostly Lightzone for image (TIFF) editing.

My workflow, still in evolution, currently is:

1) Import pictures from card. Rename files as desired using a scheme and save them in a logical (to me at least!) folder structure. I think I am managing to do this reasonably well and have saved some import profiles. I shoot RAW + JPG and all the images from the camera go to the same folder.

2) Geotag images. I use gps4cam and a phone for this. I could use the gpx file exported from gps4cam and use it to apply coordinates upon import, but I find the camera/phone time offset is better managed externally (the 2D codes generated by gps4cam correct automatically for the difference between camera time and phone time). I like HoudahGeo for this action; this also allows to add altitude data. I still have some teething problems with this part but I I should be able to sort it.

3) Inspect JPG images (using a filter) to cull images. Images with wrong focus or grossly wrong exposure, grimaces in portraits, unplanned for motion blur, etc should get eliminated here. I currently assign red colour for marking images for deletion, but I would like to find a quicker and more practical way to mark images for deletion. I received the suggestion to delete straight away and maybe this is a better alternative. We'll see...
I do the culling (and eventual rating) in PSu using the full screen view. However I am at loss when comparing and picking the best among a group of similar images. The Light Table does not do exactly what I want; what I really would like is something that works as the compare function in Aperture.

4) Images remaining after culling are rated at least 1 star, with 2 stars for images that I want to develop with an external RAW editor to get TIFFs. Before that, however, comes:

5) Reverse geotag. (Done with a batch action) [still not entirely satisfied with the location names I get from this action; I'll see if I can do better later but at the moment I have more serious issues to tackle)

6) Assigning labels. I could have done this before culling and assigning start but it seems more efficient doing it at this stage since I can avoid wasting time labelling some images and then deleting them. Overall fairly happy here, but I could improve by customizing the layout of the assign pane.

7) Develop 2 star images with external RAW developer (currently Iridient for me). Resulting TIFFs inherit the 2 star rating and the labels of the originating files. When the developed files are ready (in the same folder) I verify the folder to bring them into the catalog and cascade metadata if necessary.

8) Inspect 2 star TIFFs and decide whether any will be further edited with another external image editing software. The selected images are rated 3 star and edited (not necessarily immediately). I am still considering whether I should give them some kind of colour tag to remind me in the future to do this action.

9) (TBD) generate portfolios, etc. I still have to explore the opportunities PSu offers. Other possible options are export for print (I like to use a RIP called Image Nest for printing). Print files are only copies that get deleted after use and they always get exported to the same print folder so this action naturally lends itself to be scripted.

10) Files that get printed are rated 4 stars and images that I keep going back to, worth hanging off a wall (IMHO) in a frame get 5 stars. These ratings can only be matured with time.
Simone

vlad
Posts: 965
Joined: 01 Sep 08 15:20

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by vlad » 12 Jan 17 22:31

Hi Simone,
simato73 wrote: I do the culling (and eventual rating) in PSu using the full screen view. However I am at loss when comparing and picking the best among a group of similar images. The Light Table does not do exactly what I want; what I really would like is something that works as the compare function in Aperture.
Could you please ellaborate, as I'm not familiar with Aperture?
5) Reverse geotag. (Done with a batch action) [still not entirely satisfied with the location names I get from this action; I'll see if I can do better later but at the moment I have more serious issues to tackle)
Once you get back to the issue of reverse geotagging, please consider explaining your needs vs your results, as we had some interesting discussions on (reverse) geotagging. (It's an open topic, at least in my mind.)
6) Assigning labels. I could have done this before culling and assigning start but it seems more efficient doing it at this stage since I can avoid wasting time labelling some images and then deleting them.
That makes sense.
Overall fairly happy here, but I could improve by customizing the layout of the assign pane.
Could you please briefly explain how you would customize it? (I often find that recent users have refreshing insights.)

Regards,
Vlad

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snowman1
Posts: 295
Joined: 01 Jan 07 3:13
Location: UK

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by snowman1 » 12 Jan 17 22:53

Reverse geotag. (Done with a batch action) [still not entirely satisfied with the location names I get from this


I assume this is down to the particular database that is used by PSU; I have no ideas if there are any alternatives (and if so what limits may be placed on numbers of lookups, what level of PSU maintenance may be required to support changing 3rd party API calls, and indeed whether their data actually differs, etc).

I did notice, when responding to Simone's questions in the other thread active at the moment, that one of my recent images actually gave no information other than state (England) and country (UK) when I did the reverse lookup - this seemed really strange. It didn't even fill in the country code. I tried the operation with other images from the same device (a mobile phone) and they were ok, filling in all the fields I'd expect. I found this very odd and I can only put it down to a deficiency in the lookup database.
Snowman1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowman-1/
--------------------------------------

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fbungarz
Posts: 3117
Joined: 08 Dec 06 5:03
Location: Galapagos, Ecuador

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by fbungarz » 13 Jan 17 8:53

You can do a reverse lookup and manually change/add to the Geo-location details. Depending on your sync settings the labels will be generated accordingly.

simato73
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Nov 16 23:10

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by simato73 » 15 Jan 17 19:58

vlad wrote:Hi Simone,
simato73 wrote: I do the culling (and eventual rating) in PSu using the full screen view. However I am at loss when comparing and picking the best among a group of similar images. The Light Table does not do exactly what I want; what I really would like is something that works as the compare function in Aperture.
Could you please ellaborate, as I'm not familiar with Aperture?
There is a compare function in Aperture that works as follows.
Suppose you have a series of similar shots of which you want to choose a pick; perheps images in a action burst, or a number of slight variations in composition, depth of field, etc.
If one presses Alt-O a screen similar to a 2-image light table starts. On the left is the comparison image, on the right the image you want to compare.
The term of comparison stays fixed and one can use the arrows to advance images on the right side. If at any point any image is found, which is better than the image on the left, one can press enter and replace it with the image on the right. The empty place on the right gets immediately filled with the next image. During the whole process the image on the right can be rated with stars or colours.
When the series is finished (or at any point, in fact) by pressing Ctrl-Enter one exits the comparison mode and only the current pick is shown, supposedly the best of the bunch. One can then promote it "stack pick" with one keystroke and with another keystroke collapse the stack to hide the second choices.
I have found this way very fast and practical for comparing a variety of images similar to each other to pick the "winner".
Simone

simato73
Posts: 31
Joined: 27 Nov 16 23:10

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by simato73 » 15 Jan 17 20:14

snowman1 wrote:
Reverse geotag. (Done with a batch action) [still not entirely satisfied with the location names I get from this


I assume this is down to the particular database that is used by PSU; I have no ideas if there are any alternatives (and if so what limits may be placed on numbers of lookups, what level of PSU maintenance may be required to support changing 3rd party API calls, and indeed whether their data actually differs, etc).

I did notice, when responding to Simone's questions in the other thread active at the moment, that one of my recent images actually gave no information other than state (England) and country (UK) when I did the reverse lookup - this seemed really strange. It didn't even fill in the country code. I tried the operation with other images from the same device (a mobile phone) and they were ok, filling in all the fields I'd expect. I found this very odd and I can only put it down to a deficiency in the lookup database.
vlad wrote:
5) Reverse geotag. (Done with a batch action) [still not entirely satisfied with the location names I get from this action; I'll see if I can do better later but at the moment I have more serious issues to tackle)
Once you get back to the issue of reverse geotagging, please consider explaining your needs vs your results, as we had some interesting discussions on (reverse) geotagging. (It's an open topic, at least in my mind.)
I took some photos while out yesterday and tried to understand better the reverse lookup thing.
I think my problem was mainly unrealistic expectations. The reverse lookup looks up administrative geographical information, for example in my recent case it gave me United Kingdom, GBR, England, Copeland District. I did not know I was in the Copeland Disctrict and it is quite immaterial to me. More important to me was that I was in the Lake District National Park, which I should have not expected to come up.
Other things that are important to me, such as the name of nearby rivers and mountains, will never come up and it is unrealistic to expect so.

I guess I was a bit naive... so far I think reverse lookup is working as it should; I have not tried it in remote locations where Google could become confused (as the examples mentioned in a big thread on this subject here in the forum)
Simone

Mke
Posts: 256
Joined: 15 Jun 14 15:39

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by Mke » 16 Jan 17 1:11

simato73 wrote:I think my problem was mainly unrealistic expectations. The reverse lookup looks up administrative geographical information, for example in my recent case it gave me United Kingdom, GBR, England, Copeland District. I did not know I was in the Copeland District and it is quite immaterial to me.
Beware when using in other countries too - you'll find that Google provides the local names and spellings, possibly also with too much / too little detail. Personally I generally use a manual approach rather than reverse lookups. There's a related discussion on some of the issues at http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=23898

Hondor
Posts: 77
Joined: 05 Jul 14 15:52

Re: What is your workflow?

Post by Hondor » 24 Jan 17 17:26

simato73 wrote:A
screen similar to a 2-image light table starts. On the left is the comparison image, on the right the image you want to compare.
The term of comparison stays fixed and one can use the arrows to advance images on the right side. If at any point any image is found, which is better than the image on the left, one can press enter and replace it with the image on the right. The empty place on the right gets immediately filled with the next image. During the whole process the image on the right can be rated with stars or colours.
When the series is finished (or at any point, in fact) by pressing Ctrl-Enter one exits the comparison mode and only the current pick is shown, supposedly the best of the bunch. One can then promote it "stack pick" with one keystroke and with another keystroke collapse the stack to hide the second choices.
Certainly sounds like a huge improvement over the current lightbox feature - which is what I'm using for the moment.

You might want to consider adding a feature request in the Mantis :idea:
- no previous experience with Idimager whatsoever...

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